thirtysomething: BIG Feelings About The Show and Characters We All Loved as twentysomethings
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I wanted to project myself into their life in Philadelphia.
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I wanted the eclectic group of friends who came in and out at random. I wanted the adorable baby. I even wanted the struggles. I don't know. I guess I didn't dream big, but I just wanted to argue with my hot husband over, you know, playing squash with his friend when he said it'd be home for dinner.
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So yeah, living that life was my was my fairy tale.
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Hello, there's a song that we're singing.
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Come on, get happy.
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Is what
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we'll be bringing
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we'll make you happy.
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Welcome to the pop culture Preservation Society. The podcast for people born in the big wheel generation who know the perfect technique for twirling themselves into a phone cord without getting tangled.
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We believe our Gen X childhoods gave us unforgettable songs, stories, characters and images, and if we don't talk about them, they'll disappear, like Marshall will and Holly on a routine expedition. And today we're saving the Tuesday night TV show that centered around a close knit group of angsty friends in Philadelphia who were all a decade or more older than us, but whose lives we related to anyway. We may have only been 20 something, but we couldn't get enough of 30 something. I'm Carolyn, I'm Kristin, and I'm Michelle, and we are your pop culture preservationists. You
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i
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Do you remember the first time you felt like television was talking to you instead of at you? Well, for a lot of us, that moment came in late 1987 when a little show called 30 something slipped into our living rooms, or in my case, my dorm room. The show wasn't glamorous. It wasn't glossy. There were no shoulder pads the size of bread loaves or cat fights by the pool or scary situations in the ER. Instead, there was a group of 30 something year old friends who were just trying to figure out how to adult worrying about babies and friendships and lovers and whether their marriages were even going to survive. And for many of us, Gen Xers, it didn't matter that we were years away from being 30 something watching Michael and hope Nancy and Elliot Melissa and Gary and Ellen felt like watching older siblings just a few steps ahead of us, stumbling through the same messy and real questions we were starting to ask, and today we're finally pulling up a chair to that kitchen table in Michael and Hope's forever under construction kitchen with exposed drywall, grabbing a bottle of beer from their fridge and remembering why 30 something mattered so much to us and to much of our generation, at a time when we were all just learning how to be grown ups ourselves.
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If you remember, 30 something aired on Tuesday nights on ABC from 1987 to 1991 and the three of us were huge, enormous fans, despite the fact that we were all a full decade plus younger than 30 something. I mean, I was only 18 when it began. Yet we were obsessed. And this show impacted each of us tremendously, and what I suspect are very different ways, 100% so as the oldest of the three of us, I was actually 22 years old when 30 something first aired, and this show you guys, it became my handbook for How To Adult truly, because I had graduated in May of that year, so May of 1987 so I've got my first real big girl job. I'm playing that whole yuppie stereotype and thinking I'd been dating Andy for a little over two years, so I knew that we'd be getting married one day. You know, that was just set in stone in my head. So 30 something was like my blueprint. This is who Andy and I were going to be. Andy was in advertising. Oh, my God, I know.
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I know
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that takes it to a whole different level. It does whole different and I, you know, had lived in the East Coast, so I could kind of picture that whole Philadelphia scene and having a cute little like, you know, fix her upper house, because Andy's really handy. So all of that just kind of fed into this narrative that I was just going to play out. I was just, like you said, a few steps behind, but I was going to follow their instructions step by step into this next big chapter of my life. And that's how that show went for me its entirety. Yeah, that's so interesting. Yeah, it's really and I think it will differ quite a lot depending on how old you were, even.
Unknown Speaker 5:00
By a year or two or three? Yes, because if you were 18, it might mean something to you. If you were 15, it might not mean anything to you at all. So I'm really interested to hear what our listeners think about this, and who would affect it and who it didn't. Were you a teenager? Were you an almost adult? Were you a child? Because Gen X covers a lot of territory. So I'm very, very curious. It's hard for me to even talk coherently about what I've experienced in the last week rewatching these episodes. I think I've been more man alone this week than at any other time in PCPs history, especially with two episodes in particular, in particular that I'll talk about in a little bit. But when I talk about the show now, I'm always so confused about why I slash. We were so into it, and truthfully, until the three of us started talking about it, I didn't even know if other people my age watched it, because I knew it wasn't for us. I thought I was very aware that these people were not my generation, and if you think about it, our they were only 10 years younger than our parents. And right? I know it's weird, and I remember recommending very enthusiastically, because I loved it so much. So I was 19 years old in September of 1987 when I started watching it in my dorm room, like Michelle, surrounded by all of the women on my floor, and the next year. So season two, I had a class on Tuesday nights with my friend,
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yes, and it was from from six until 8:55pm
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we were taking Judaism with Rabbi Melamed. It was a three hour class, and we would sit there at 850 we were already had our jackets on, we had our bags on our shoulder, and we're just praying, literally praying for Rabbi Melamed to stop talking, and we're watching the right class to answer maybe, and then we would, as soon as she let us go, we would run. And when I say run, I mean literally, we would run, run, run, run, run across campus to interbo Hall next door. We would go to the cafe in the basement called the paws. We would order nachos on a paper plate. We would order one big cup of half Sprite, half water for my friend Lee. We would run up the stairs to my friend Lee's dorm room, and the goal was to get there before the music started. Oh, you don't want to miss that pizza. No, you can't miss the pan flute.
Unknown Speaker 7:26
She's on top of Michael, the baby, the baby crawling by. She kisses his cheek. Yes, and we would just be like sweating, just sweating, I'm sweating listening to you tell the story. It was important. And then my senior year, we oftentimes watched the show next door where the guys lived, including Mike, who would someday be my husband. Yeah, it was the equivalent of what you just talked about, Michelle, of grabbing a beer out of the fridge out of hope and Michael's fridge without asking which, by the way, was Michelob dry. And we started drinking Michelob dry. Because they were drinking Michelob dry, we would just walk into their house and turn on their TV, and now I know that we were trying to make them be our Michaels and our Elliotts and our Gary's, because they weren't having it. They just walked around us totally uninterested, like we weren't even there. But we were trying to claim them as our Michaels and our Gary's and our Elliott, right? It was confusing for me because, you know, that I was so wrapped up in the show even at the time. It was confusing for me because I was very aware that I had no big dreams of getting married and having babies like hope and Michael. That was not my fantasy. I was not that interested in grown up things, of completing the picture perfect grown up life with the House and the picket fence and the 2.4 kids, and I was really quite scared to death of Hope's life being, you know, she was married, no job consumed by baby care. I mean, Hope was not that into it, either. To be honest, I actively did not want that. So why was I hooked so hard? But now, after watching the show for a few nights, the secret has been revealed. I get it. I totally understand hope and Michael were the nucleus of this show, but they were surrounded by this group of friends who were, in my mind, their college friends. That's how, that's what I put upon them. I was projecting. And those were the people who circulated in their orbit. And this was a carbon copy of my current situation, where you've separated from your family of origin, and now your friends are your family. And I was watching how this friend family could be brought with you into your future. And that was my fantasy. These people are going to be my family forever. It doesn't have to end here, and we all have different crises to be managed, just like we do now, not now. I mean then, just like we did then, it was mostly love work and sex, love work and sex, love work and sex. And there's no denying how important the role that sex played in drawing us into this show, because they talked very openly about sex, not in lewd ways, no or scandalous ways.
Unknown Speaker 10:00
Ways, except for having it, not having it, basically having it or not having it, yeah, wanting it, not wanting it, working. Yeah, very, very realistic. And they were talking about it in the way that friends do, and it portrayed sex, not as a fantasy romance, not soap opera sex, but in a very light hearted way and a realistic way, how it gets interrupted when the baby cries, or when your mom knocks on the door, and it the whole thing just validated our experience as new adults, like we belong here in this place and this sexual place, and it's not dirty or wrong, it's nice and it's complicated. And this was the real fantasy. It wasn't Donna Reed has been house baby. It was being loved and supported and listened to by an adorable partner in very tender ways, while maintaining a friend focused life with the people you grew up with. It was like, it was like, st IMOs fire part two,
Unknown Speaker 10:52
yeah, it kind of was, that's a great that's a great analogy, guys, I I want to weep right now. I feel like we end our fifth year, and I don't know if there's been a discussion in 240 something discussions that I have felt closer to the two of you I know than us having this conversation about 30 something. It's like I want to say to you guys, I found my people I know. I found my people, like with you guys seven years ago or whatever, six years ago, but like to know how much this meant to me, and then to hear you guys reflecting it back to me. I want to reach through my screen and physically kiss each of you. I love you so much, and I love come to life. It's 30 something happening right now. This is the most excited I feel like I've ever been for a conversation, because I still, we still have more to come, and I don't even know how I'm gonna but I just said earlier you guys that we were obsessed with this in what I suspected were very different ways. But listening to the two of you right now, again, I feel so bubbly inside, because it's not that different, even though I'm, you know, a little bit younger than you, because obsessed is too small a word to describe my relationship with 30 something. I was consumed by this show and hope and Michael in particular. I was just starting college, like I said in the fall of 1987 and I latched onto this show so hard my roommate and I did together.
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People often say that the characters and the stories in 30 something are so relatable, that's what made it so successful. But for me, from age 18 to 22 think about it, they were not but for emerging adult Michelle, 30 something was a fairy tale, fucked up fairy tale, for sure, but it was a depiction of young adult life that looked amazing to me in its normalcy, which is exactly how that relatability then played For me. That's what you wanted. Yeah, so cut to Season Two and little emerging adult Michelle has her first serious boyfriend, and to me, we looked more than a little bit like hope and Michael. You guys, I would cut out every 30 something picture from magazines and pin to my book pinned to my bulletin board next to pictures of me and Brian, because, oh, spoiler alert, everyone, I married my Michael
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doesn't have hair anymore, but that's fine,
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and I'm not wrong. We totally could have been the 19 and 20 year old versions of hope and Michael, I actually still have all the things that I had on my college bulletin board my junior year in a box, and I'm gonna post on in this week's Weekly Reader, because I want to see what you guys think if you could be like, Oh, that could have been them at age 19 and 20. We'll see. But like, like I said, 30 something was the illusion of the life I wanted and aspired, even with all the constant, messy parts fucked up fairy tale, like I said, right? I mean, what 19 year old yearns for, an old fixer upper with leafy pipes and exposed drywall and an overworked husband and a crying baby, instead of like a cool loft in Soho, where you get to get dressed up in fancy clothes and go out to the bars every weekend looking for guys, right?
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I did me, Michelle. I did and I got I got that it was a depiction of real life. And really, that's all I wanted. I wanted to project myself into their life in Philadelphia.
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I wanted the eclectic group of friends who came in and out at random. I wanted the adorable baby. I even wanted the struggles. I don't know. I guess I didn't dream big, but I just wanted to argue with my hot husband over, you know, playing squash with his friend when he said it'd be home for dinner. So, yeah, living that life was my was my fairy tale, and it's.
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So it makes so much sense, Michelle, because you wanted something normal and predictable and reliable and constant, something that you didn't you'd have to. You had to navigate so much when you were a kid. You're like, I don't want to navigate anymore. You know what? That's a really good point. I lived a really chaotic and unpredictable
Unknown Speaker 15:19
childhood, certainly until, well, certainly until I was in college and so, yeah, finding, yeah, it's, it's, I used to say to my therapist, yeah, it's, it's, no, like, I get how funny it is. Ha, ha, that Michelle's first serious boyfriend. She married him. Like, I just want, like, I was like, Okay, you Yes, this is gonna work. We're gonna this is gonna be it, then for the rest of it, but, but, yeah, that's what 30 something represented to me, even though it was messy,
Unknown Speaker 15:50
like way, yeah, you can look at even the messiness of like Nancy and Elliot. But you know what, even that they were working through for sometimes, sometimes, yeah, you know season one, not as much, but, but, but, they were working. They were they were, like, gonna, they were gonna try to keep providing that constant, yeah, that stability,
Unknown Speaker 16:09
yeah, so, yeah. So I've decided, though, after rewatching we, we too have been re watching Brian, and also, like, I by season two, Brian watched all these with me, because, believe me, that's what I was watching on Tuesday night, and I was usually at like, his usually at like his, you know, frat house room or whatever. So I was like 30 somethings on I've decided I'm gonna get him some suspenders for Christmas,
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maybe a pair of seated pants. Real
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pleased. They got bigger as time went on,
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puffiness. Kind of down in that pleated card or whatever. Yes, very 90s, they're all so pleated and puffy, and then all of hope. And like Ellen's and Melissa especially, they're the giant everything was, everything was just covering their cute little bodies. Yes, well, and you know, Mike always says that the late 80s were really hard for boys who wanted to see girls, because we were always wearing these giant sweatshirts. And they're like, I don't know what's under there. I have no idea. Well, and you add the shoulder pad, which, you know, like when we talk about our shoulder pads, we always all laugh listeners, because we always think of the Carolyn sketch with the, you know, the curtain rod, but we, you really couldn't see anything, because our shoulders went out about eight inches longer than our actual shoulders, so that the shirts just hung right. I remember when Maggie and Grace were like, in high school, and they'd want to get a sweatshirt. And I'd be like, okay, large or extra large, and grace would be like, I think it's between small and medium. I should get. Nobody gets a smaller medium sweatshirt, like they shouldn't even offer. I went all the way past your butt. Your sweatshirt was there with the band of the sweatshirt would go around your thighs. Yes,
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that's back with your stirrup pants. I'm kind of loving that the big baggy sweatshirts that kind of go over your wrists and stuff our back, like now, I always get size large of everything. Is it anyone that also has to do with my body getting large? And I'm saying our generation, we're kind of bringing that back. We loved it then, and we love it. Yeah, it kind of, it's comfy it, you know, leaves after the imagination. You know? What? Also, I got reminded of some of the smallest details that you forget about an era that don't seem important, but you're like, hey, yeah, why don't we do that anymore in this show, people, women are always sleeping in a T shirt, just a t shirt. I always slept in just a t shirt. When did I start wearing pajamas, exactly, but I've gone back to the t shirt because Andy's are nice and 100% cotton, and they are kind of big on me. I mean, they're not the cute ones that would come down to my knees, and I thought I was all that, like sleeping over in his dorm room or whatever, but they're really comfortable, and they're white, and they kind of absorb some stuff. And, yeah,
Unknown Speaker 18:55
I have to get the cool, like, pajamas from like, Selma. I have like, eight pairs of those because they have to, like, wake my sweat away.
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Well,
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okay, we digress. Well, so this show was so character driven, and the story lines were so engrossing, but that's totally because of the strong characters, Michael and hope, the newlyweds with a new baby, Elliot and Nancy with the two small kids and a rocky marriage. Y'all watching these back. Have you just been watching little Ethan and going, Oh man, that kid just pissed me off. Half the time. He was such a shit. Was just a little shit half the time the get go from
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the say, I mean, I think in like, Episode, like the first, like, you know, first, like, six or eight episodes, he can be still kind he's just going with this plane. He's just always running that plane around, and everyone's getting into other episodes. And he's, you're right, he's a little shit. And I it was like, I saw that kid's face yesterday when came back up. I was like, ah, there's that Ethan,
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good friends that had a kid. He was a little shit. And you just didn't quite know how.
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To handle, like, the friendship, because you want to go, I don't want to go over there that kid is out of control or whatever. But, and that was and Nancy and Elliot were actually good teachers for me, because even though I was not planning on having kids, I knew that I would someday. And I'm like, that's what I'm not. Yeah, I am going with the Nancy and Elliot playing, yes, I'm like, taking notes. This is not exactly, know what your parenting style is. I'm like, I'm learning about my parenting style. Not it, right? Yeah, we were watching the other night, and Brittany was in under the table or something. And Brian's like, Wait, who's she? And I was like, That's pretty. It was like, I said it just like, Nancy, that's pretty. Yeah, don't you remember little brittie? She was cute. Well, then we have Melissa, who was Michael's single cousin, who is an up and coming photographer with a lot of personality and a lot of style, let's say, and a lot of issues, who used to date Gary, Michael's best friend from college, who is a single professor for a hot second that we all at least I did swooned over I thought Mary was super attractive, even though Michael was my, you know, Michael was my future husband. And then we have Ellen, quirky Ellen Hope's lifelong bestie, who is still a single career woman and often feels like the seventh wheel, except for towards the middle to end of season one. I love when her and Melissa figure out that they are like, Hey, we can be friends. Like, yes, then they start hanging out, and it's just so I just love their their friendship. I think they're funny. It's very offbeat, and it's very entertaining. You're so happy, yeah, because they're so different.
Unknown Speaker 21:41
Well, I love the whole friendship group, so so much. I love the dysfunction and the arguments and the goofiness and the smart alecky comments and just the huge amount of love they they so obviously had for each other. I mean, they could get into some bad arguments, like, like, really bad. They were yelling at each other, but they made up and, God, this is all going this is all making sense now. Kristen, thank you. How much do I owe you for this?
Unknown Speaker 22:08
You can argue and still and come out on the other side and still be friends? Yeah, exactly. And then it's good for your relationship to do that, yeah, well, and I love them all for different reasons, like when the guys were all together, Kristen, this is like what you were saying that was sexed me up with their college level shenanigans still in their 30 within their 30 something, and they're really stupid humor at that moment, because it was so real, and it was very much what I was living in at that time with Brian and his friends were Michael and Gary and Elliot, you know, doing a stakeout. And then I also loved it when it would just be the girls hanging out, because they're usually talking about the stupid things the guys were doing, which was also very real. That's exactly what I was going to through. And then when they're all together, and they're typically in Michael and Hope's ramshack, ramshackle fixer upper, walking in the door without knocking and grabbing beers out of the fridge without asking, and despite this being such an ensemble, each character also had such tremendous individual character, if you will, and personality and struggles and triumphs, right? And it's sort of like Sex in the City, where everybody like, Are you are you a Miranda? Are you a Carrie? I thought, yeah, everybody chooses who they're going to be. And I think still, a lot of a lot of the populace is, is veering toward hope. And Michael like, they are the nucleus, they are the nucleus. They are the nucleus. But I do think that, you know, what's super cool about the way this show was written, and I think we'll get into that in just a little bit. But they gave each of these characters such struggles and personality and storylines. If you go through just on like Wikipedia and just read the synopsis of every episode of every season, it's almost equally divided between these seven characters, yeah? And I think it feels like veering toward hope and Michael, because so much of the talking took place in their home, right? Well, their mom and dad. Yeah, they were the mom and dad of the friend. That's true. Yeah, exactly. And people could identify with a character in there. So of course, like I said, I was identifying with Michael and hope, because that was my, you know, dream. But if you're the single friend, or you're Kristen, you might identify with, you know, Ellen, or, I think everybody could find themselves in one of the characters, no matter where you were in your stage of life, and then all of those things you said, Michelle, the trials, the tribulations, the highs, the lows, you could relate to, all you know, to those as well. So you could identify who you, quote, unquote were, but you could also identify who you aspired to be, true that might be different. You may not actually be much like hope, but you.
Unknown Speaker 25:00
Really want your future to look like hopes, and so you're going to pin your pin your hopes on hopes on hope. But the thing about hope is that for the first time, somebody was telling the truth about motherhood. Hope was telling the truth about motherhood. This was not Donna Reed. She was not glorifying the husband in the house and the baby. She was showing how she was having difficulty with it, and something had been taken away from it, and all of the different, the frustrations that came with it. And then Ellen offered the alternative to hope. She's the childhood friend who works at City Hall, and she's got the big shoulder pads, and she has, you know, she's got relationships here and there, but she overtly says, I'm not really thinking about having children. I don't want that. She's the CounterPoint. And then, like I said, Nancy and Elliot helped me identify my parenting style, which was not that. And then it was like, two kids, sorry, but didn't it always seem like they had about 15 when you were like in a scene in their living room
Unknown Speaker 25:59
where the kids are just running back and forth under the table and over the and, like I said, Ethan's always got that damn, like, airplane that he's like, over people's heads and dunking it in their coffee, and then, like, climbing over them on their laps. And you're just like, somebody discipline this child, and their parenting style was shrieking. That was their parenting style. Like, I'm not gonna be a Shrieker. Yeah. I mean, we could get into a whole discussion about this, about how they were unhappy with each other in their marriage and all this kind of stuff, but it all makes sense now as adults, right? Yeah. And now we've all been parents ourselves, so now we are like, have some boundaries, right? Nancy and Elliot. Nancy and Elliot parents, right? Yes, well, and Melissa was so important in that group because she was the personality. Everybody had a Melissa in their friend group. She was the one with the Doc Martins, and she would have, right? Everybody had one, one Doc, Doc Martin person in their friend group, yes, right. And it was Wendy.
Unknown Speaker 26:57
Sorry, I just, I just thought of Wendy, yeah. And there's one scene from one episode that was so immaterial and had nothing to do with nothing, and I've been thinking about it for 35 years, because it was so funny and it was so Melissa. Melissa is at a big party, and for some reason, she's stuck in a room with all the children watching TV. You know? They're like, throw all the kids in a room and turn on, turn on a movie. Yeah, and for some reason, Melissa stuck with all the kids, and they're watching the Danny K movie, Hans Christian Anderson. And little Britty keeps going, Hans Christian Amberson, Hans Christian Amberson. And she's saying Amberson instead of Anderson. And Melissa just looks at her with such disdain, and she's like, it's Anderson,
Unknown Speaker 27:42
she's arguing with a small child perfectly that season one, the Thanksgiving episode, I feel like, sure, I think it's a great episode. But didn't you guys also feel like, with the love we all had of this show, you might have had a favorite character, but you sort of, you either aspired to be certain parts of a I don't want to say names, because I want to give mine away, shocking. But like, you know, you aspired to have, you know, the fashion sense of this one, or the point, you know, a personality trait of this one. Like, I can't say in this whole ensemble, there was one that I disliked, but you liked little bits and pieces of them. You almost wanted to build the perfect person with little bits and pieces of each they're ideally set, usually in a TV show. They will set up. They'll send set up an ensemble cast. Have one person who's supposed to be either the villain or the anti hero or the the contrast. And yes, there's lots of contrast. You know. Like I said, Ellen is the contrast to hope. But you're not meant to dislike any of them. No, every single one of them is some I don't think she felt something for Yeah, except for miles, except for miles
Unknown Speaker 28:56
house dude I got when I heard the name miles drentell. Miles rental is the evil owner of the advertising agency that Michael and Elliot work for, and he was vile. Miles, yeah, he was, he was like that, yeah. He was absolutely the villain. Yeah, he was the only villain.
Unknown Speaker 29:16
Parents, bless their hearts. Well, you know what,
Unknown Speaker 29:23
the parent episodes. But I can't, we don't have that kind
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of time. Did Did you have a favorite?
Unknown Speaker 29:31
Oh, let's see, go ahead. Carolyn, I was gonna go ahead. No, I guess I would say hope and but it's in terms of that's the like person like, not specifically hope herself. Because, honestly, sometimes I thought she kind of whined a little bit i but her life, I wanted her life. So in terms of aspiration, that was it. But early on, I would say I probably also aspired to Ellen's life, because I wasn't like right out of the gate thing.
Unknown Speaker 30:00
About having kids. So there was the aspiration of hope, but more reality was probably being successful in my shoulder pads. And, you know, whatever, what were my Never mind, but my shoulder
Unknown Speaker 30:12
Yes, the cute, chic kind of, you know, short hair, she had a business,
Unknown Speaker 30:19
kind of yuppie at that point, the young urban professional, that's what I was aiming for. So in answer to that question, it was more their care what those characters were doing, not necessarily the people themselves, if that makes any sense. And that's I just said you liked, yeah, you liked it combination you wanted a little bit of hope and a little bit of Ellen. I love that. Yeah, I was so very attached to Ellen, maybe because, like I said, she was intended, intended to play off of Hope who I was, I know, big shocker. This is gonna shock nobody, and none of the things that we're saying are shocking any of our listeners. So I was actively trying not to be hope her. And Ellen's personality was like somebody, but I loved hope. I have nothing against you really. Like
Unknown Speaker 31:02
trying. Yes,
Unknown Speaker 31:05
I also I love how you just said trying to not be her, but you loved her. Because look at Hope and Ellen. I love how in episode one, they address right out of the gate. Yeah, they're not just college friends. They've been childhood friends. So these two have been friends forever and all of a sudden, and both career women right, both out of college, one gets married and has a baby, one doesn't How do you now still be that good of friends when your lives are so wildly different, and you end up ultimately seeing that you still have this love of who you are inside for each other. And yeah, that's kind of what you just said. You want to be hope, but you loved hope. I don't want, I want to be friends with her. And there's a great scene in the in the pilot episode, where Ellen and hope are getting together for lunch and and of course, Hope has to come in with the stroller and the baby, and then there. And it's a very nice restaurant, and Ellen's trying to engage her in conversation, but the baby always needs something, and then the baby starts to cry and hope is just panicking, and she's trying to keep engaging with Ellen, but she's also unbuttoning her shirt and trying to get a boob out so she can make this child Shut up. And then eventually, Ellen's like, you know what? You can you don't have to stay. You can go. And she's like, No, no, I want to stay. I want to stay at Ellen's like, please go. This is torture. And so eventually she does pack up the baby and go. And they had to get through that moment. They had to talk about it, like, what does this actually mean? But Ellen's personality was, like, somebody I would have wanted to hang out with. She was She was funny without trying to be funny. She still really wants to have a good time. She's a little scared of Hope's life too, kind of like I was. And I don't it's no accident that the two episodes that man alone, me the hardest, were centered around my two favorite characters. And that's when Ellen gets married. And I'm gonna go there when Gary dies.
Unknown Speaker 32:59
We spend four years watching Ellen stumble and fall with her career trajectory and her love life, and she's on the brink of giving up when she falls for a truly good person. Everyone's like, she's gonna do it. She's gonna do it. But even then, her fear of abandonment might make her walk away from this beautiful situation. And so when she finally walks down that aisle, surrounded by all of her friends on the arm of Michael because her dumb deadbeat dad didn't show up in a musical montage, no less, to Ray Charles's come rain or come shine. I am crying crying. I am crying like it's 1991
Unknown Speaker 33:38
and I remember sitting on the couch and crying next to my friend, my roommate, Martha, and we're both crying at Ray Charles and Ellen and Michael in the musical montage. It's it. I was like in a different place, and I came to love this song, this Ray Charles song, come rain or come shine. I had never heard this song before, and now to this day, it's still one of my favorite songs that will make me cry. But I have one question, How did I find out what this song was with no internet?
Unknown Speaker 34:09
I have no idea, and I don't know how I got from point A to point B, right? Knew how to had Google Maps or whatever did. I did? I call the reference librarian and say there was a song at the end of 30 something, but you can't see it because you we can't stream it. I don't so it's a mystery to be solved. I don't know how I found out what this song was, but then how do I even talk about the episode where Gary died? I don't think this was a water cooler moment for the ages. It was like, Who shot Jr in reverse? Oh, because the answer is revealed to us first, like boom, like shot right between the eyes, and the surprise factor was magnified because of how beloved Gary was. They killed the Golden Retriever is what happened. Gary was our golden retriever. Let's not forget for how many episodes leading up to Gary's death had we all.
Unknown Speaker 35:00
Been thinking, Nancy's gonna die. Nancy's gonna die all of a sudden in the episode where we find out that Nancy's not going to die,
Unknown Speaker 35:10
you guys, I was so gutted. I was so I was so in disbelief. I was so pissed off. Yes, I cried so hard I couldn't sleep at night. Yeah, we all He wasn't just Gary, to all of us who loved this show so much, he was he was actually, he wasn't Peter Horton playing Gary. He was Gary was he was our Gary. He was our golden retriever. Fact that he was biking to the hospital to give Nancy a book. No, it's worse, wasn't it's worse because he's driving, because Michael says, Oh, this is gonna break my heart. Okay, I'm gonna set the whole thing up so we can get to the biking versus driving thing, because he is he we're at they're all at the hospital celebrating Nancy's surgery, where she's now in remission. Everybody come to the hospital celebrating, she's not going to die, and everyone's like, where's Gary? Where's Gary? So Michael goes out in the hallway on the pay phone to call Gary. Doesn't answer. I'm going to call the machine at home. So he puts another quarter in the pay phone. Calls the machine at home. There's a message from a police officer saying, there's been an accident, please call the police. And so he writes the number down on his hand, puts another quarter in the pay phone calls the police, where we lose that's where the world falls apart. Gary has been killed in an accident, and what happened was when he tells earlier in the day, when Michael and Gary are discussing going to visit Nancy in the hospital. Michael's like, Gary, do not ride that bike in the snow. The weather, right? The weather, it's so bad weather. Do not ride that bike. And Gary rides away on his bike, and he's waving. So then when he goes to the morgue, he's biking away. So poor Michael has to go to the morgue to identify his friend's body, and he says, I told him not to ride the bike. I told him not to ride the bike. And the doctor says, Oh, he wasn't riding his bike. He drove. And he was behind a tractor trailer truck that locked up on the icy bridge. It was an eight car pile up, and Michael's face just goes
Unknown Speaker 37:24
and drops to the floor. I want to bring the point about when you were saying you were watching it, Michelle, and you were just dumbstruck, and you were with your roommate, and just, how could they do this? And I think about now, like, first of all, either you watched it that night or you didn't. It's like, it's not like you could watch it the next day. So there really wasn't such a thing as spoilers back then, and there wasn't the way to, like, connect with other Watchers or whatever. So there wasn't, like, any theories. I mean, maybe like, it's going to be Nancy, someone's going to die, it's going to be Nancy, Nancy. So that the shock factor back then, I don't know that you could replicate it now, unless it was something real that happened in life, because somehow you would either get somebody leaks something, or there's something, you know, something ahead of time, or certainly, if you couldn't watch it that night, for whatever reason, you're like, Okay, I'm gonna watch it tomorrow, you would have accidentally seen a spoiler, or you would have had to have actively avoided spoiler talking about it. And even if you don't get the actual information, there are nuggets. There are enough nuggets that you know something is coming, right?
Unknown Speaker 38:31
And this is such good TV, because it wasn't just us who was surprised, right? So they told Gary, of course, because this Gary's the one playing the role, but they did not tell the cast, and so the cast is doing the same thing that we are. They're like thinking that Nancy's gonna die, and they don't know until they sit down at the table read, and they're literally reading the words out loud that they learn that Gary has died, and they said that moment where it starts to come out at the table read, they're going through the same thing we are when we watch it on TV. It's much like if you remember radar coming into the or you heard about this on our mash episode, radar coming into the or to share that Colonel Blake had been shot down over the Sea of Japan. They didn't tell the cast that radar was going to come into the room and say that. And so the writers wanted to tap into that emotion of the actors, and they love Gary just like we do for the three of us and for I guess there's other people out there that liked the show as much as we did, maybe, but no, but for all of you listening, I think you know the show was only on for four years. It was so impactful to us. But I don't know that you can talk to anybody who loved this show without Gary coming up, without that coming up with Gary, because you can't not. And it's not that it overshadows all the other episodes, because there were so many other great things, and that's what they did so well and pretty.
Unknown Speaker 40:00
Particularly in that episode, is the both and like one, you can be so happy and ecstatic that Nancy is okay, and you're riding this high and then in the same exact moment, you're riding the lowest of lows, yeah. And that's kind of life. I feel like that's another thing the show did so well, was show us that it's not always, you know, whatever. It's not always roses and champagne, and it's also not always the bottom of the dregs or whatever, but it can be both, and they can be right on top of each other, totally on top of each other, that roller coaster. And how do you reconcile that? That's, yeah, just, you know, interestingly, the eswick and Marshall Herskovits, who created 30 something and, and much of the storylines were based on their own life. They had this, this, like two year period on both of their lives where this, what you just said, Carolyn, the both and, I mean, their wives were having children, they were winning an Emmy, and then the very next day, one of them's father gets diagnosed with brain cancer. So now, having hearing you say that, I bet that's where this all came in. Like we have to figure this out somehow. How we can illustrate this, that episode where Nancy, you know, where we find that and when Gary dies, and in 2009
Unknown Speaker 41:21
TV Guide ranked second look, which was a season four episode 76 aired on February 12, 1991
Unknown Speaker 41:29
they ranked it as number 34 on its list of the top 100 greatest TV episodes. I'm so proud to hear that, because Patricia wedding got an Emmy. Yeah, oh my gosh. And also, I think Elliot should have gotten an Emmy too, because he has the job of telling his wife, who is celebrating, that she's going to not die, that her friend has just died. And so he threads that dead so incredibly, yes. So, I mean, I can't describe it for you. Just have to watch how he's like, trying to tell her that her friend died, but he doesn't want to take away from her triumph anyway. Oh my gosh, it's horrible. Well, I just have to pop in real quick and tell you who my favorite was, because I'm sure you
Unknown Speaker 42:09
guys wondering, right? Yeah, yeah.
Unknown Speaker 42:12
Well, I mean, it's probably a little obvious after just telling you that I basically modeled myself after her and aspired to be her and have her life. But yes, that was hope Murdoch Stedman, and it's hard for me to separate her from Michael, because again, like I just said, I saw me and Brian as them. That's not creepy at all, though, right? And besides her great hair, nobody could rock a ponytail. The ponytail was always perfect, and her really cute, baggy late 80s clothes, I just felt like hope was really real. And yeah, she gets criticized for maybe being a little whiny or whatever. But so did, so did I? I mean, she had a young baby, she has a lot of wine about Yeah, but she had feelings. She had feelings. She spoke up though she loved her friends, she she was wrong a lot, and maybe we could see that as we're watching it. But
Unknown Speaker 43:07
I also felt like hope was often the steady boat in Rocky seas, like I felt like they all like I said. They were mom and dad. They didn't want, you know, anytime hope and Michael were arguing, and the other friends knew it. They were like the kids, like, no, no. What's going on here? No, mom and dad don't fight. Like, right?
Unknown Speaker 43:25
And I related to being that steady boat and rocky seas a lot. And I also loved that everyone loved hope like I loved that, that they knew they could count on her and rely on her. She was their anchor. Yeah, yeah. And I loved I had a whole bunch of Melissa had a whole bunch of qualities that I just thought were so fun, and so I also always loved Melissa. But hope was my and yet they're totally they're totally flawed, like you said, which is which makes them all the more relatable. And one of the episodes that makes me love hope all the more was when her mother comes to visit, and hope can't not be a bitch to her mom. And you're set up to think that Hope's mom is a bitch. But then you watch them together, and you're like, hope, I think it's you, honey. And even Michael is like, hope. Can you just back off a little bit like, Let the woman breathe? And then you realize that hope needs to go to therapy and then, and by the end of the episode, Hope was like, Yeah, I get it. I get it. I need to back off a little bit. And that episode spoke so sorry. Go ahead. No, I just want to say because I feel like I have to defend my comment from before, because I said that hope was a little whiny. And I will say, when I was watching that show, when I was in my 20s, I didn't want to be whiny like that was realistic. And so to your point, like, yes, she was playing that role so well, and that's real life. But I was not going to be the whiner I was going to be wrote, you know, glass half full. We've got this. So when I said those qualities were not some that I wanted to.
Unknown Speaker 45:00
Yeah, those were ones I didn't want to have that hope had, but it all
Unknown Speaker 45:05
comes back to us. Personality. Yeah, exactly. Oh yeah, because the that episode with Hope's parents, which is very early in season one, yeah,
Unknown Speaker 45:16
I remember so vividly at age 18, projecting myself and seeing that's how I will be with my mother. And when we were just watching it a couple weeks ago, Brian looked over at me halfway through, and he's like, yeah, yeah, I don't, I don't see you as hope at all hot, like, Haha.
Unknown Speaker 45:34
You were one that was 100% you with your mother. But see, I see it from Hope's point of view, too. And I can be like, instead of because Brian kept going, don't you see how she's like, kind of being bratty and bitchy? And I was going, No, her mother, you know? And I'm defending hope. But also because it was so interesting seeing hope, not as the mother of the wife, how we had seen her for the first few episodes, but seeing her as the daughter, and then you got a glimpse back into her childhood, which, you know, played, played into a lot how she was then responding to her mother, all of a sudden, being like, I'm the perfect mother. Now it's so, so personal, and I think it's worth mentioning too, that I absolutely 100% ended up with Hope's life. I mean, including her frustrations. I mean, carbon copy, her frustrations, everything that hope struggled with, I struggled with, and I'm like, How did I get here and I got there the same way that hope did? Because it's kind of a trap a little bit, you know. And I don't need to go into that too deeply, but it is, you know, well, for our generation especially. I mean, you're told two bill of goods, and they didn't always they didn't judge, which was the very end of that, first of the pilot episode, when hope and Ellen are at the park and they admit both, each of them are gel a little jealous about you have something that I want, when they each thought that the other thought that they didn't want any that they were judging in common, yeah, and they're, yeah, rejecting the lifestyles that they had both chosen, when, in reality, they both wanted a little something that the other had wanted her freedom, and Ellen wanted her domesticity. And we wanted both. I mean, let's just say back then, or, you know, as we got our jobs and got married and had kids, you wanted, you kind of wanted both because you had been told both were great, but both didn't work together at the same time. How can you do No, but, yeah, but they do a great job. I mean, I was surprised looking back on it, that it was as early as it was in season one, that hope goes back to work, I thought.
Unknown Speaker 47:36
But then they do a really good job of showing that struggle she feels of not being with Janie and then she wants to have another baby. And yeah, I know, yeah, yeah.
Unknown Speaker 48:00
I
Unknown Speaker 48:04
unlike the nighttime soaps of the 1980s I think it's very clear that we could insert ourselves into the lives of these characters, instead of just being observers into the lives of like oil tycoons and winery matriarchs and things like that. The problems may not have been about mergers and takeovers and love triangles. But that does not mean that the problems were small or uninteresting. The inverse is actually true. We were spellbound by them because they could actually happen to us. Yeah? Well, if you think about like, I mean, we keep we've been talking a lot about Nancy's ovarian cancer, yeah, but just the whole way it started where she's, I just remember that first episode, and she was like, at the doctor, and she was like, I've just got this little pain, this little pain, you know, they're EDS, wick and Marshall Herskovits are taking just these normal, really, real life things. Or it could be Michael and Elliot, you know, when they worked at the Michael and Elliott company, and they're arguing over, you know, Michael's feeling like Elliot's liked more by one of their clients than he is, or whatever. So yeah, they're not having to take these dynasty Dallas level type issues and problems that are so unrelatable to all of us. They're taking someone going to the doctor with a pain and now all of a sudden it turns into cancer. They're taking a work relationship where there's a little bit of jealousy involved. They're taking, yeah, they're taking Michael and hope, getting into a fight. Because, my God, when is there gonna not be drywall exposed in my kitchen, you know, or
Unknown Speaker 49:33
whatever, like, exactly, and so, so they weren't, they weren't these otherworldly like they weren't like, these big problems. They were real problems that were big. They were real big.
Unknown Speaker 49:48
And so that's why, that's why I feel like they were way more important than than, you know, the problems that the carringtons or the Ewings, you
Unknown Speaker 49:58
said? Michelle.
Unknown Speaker 50:00
All just a few minutes ago, that these were problems that EDS, wick and Marshall Herskovits were experiencing themselves, or their friends were, or some of the other writers were, like, these were real life experiences that sometimes they're bringing in see stuff that had happened like in their lives. There's a how do I want to say this? They often would bring like a fight that they had had the week before with their one of their wives, and that would make its way into the script. And interestingly enough, eds, wick has a wonderful memoir out called hits, flops and other illusions that I've listened to on Audible because I love memoirs being read by the person that it's about their memoir, and he tells those stories about these exact moments that they are basically replicating, the week after, two weeks after. And interestingly enough, both Marshall and Ed's wives worked on the show as well, whether as writers or, I think maybe director kind of pieces here, like story editors or something they would each take over, like, like one of them would be in charge of writing or editing. Nancy and Elliot, one of them was in charge of someone else's storyline. They had different writers and their wives, weirdly, were in charge, because the two the total difference of hope and Michael and Elliot and Nancy. And I think they those two marriages kind of reflect Marshall's marriage, Ed's marriage, yeah. I mean, that's how real life it was. And when you listen to this, to him talk through this whole experience of 30 something, it is so reflective of their exactly what's happening in their lives, or even in the cast members lives, like they would share, because they were so close and so friendly. And so you maybe come in and talk about, I mean, Mel Harris might come in and talk about her divorce. Her, I think it was her third divorce she was going through while the show was on. And she might come in and, you know, talk about something that had happened, and, like they said, mean, a few weeks later, you read something similar in one of the scripts. So that's why it was Be careful what you would walk in and share, probably right? Well, that's what, that's what he says in the book, that eventually people started to be a little bit more closed now on their lives, because they saw it weaving itself into the storylines, but getting back to what we were saying, because it's real life, and we are not having to imagine, you know, living on a big ranch in Dallas, we it's it could be our friends or us, or people across the street paying attention, and this was the first Time, as Ed even talks about in his memoir, the first time there was ever really a show like this, where it wasn't some aspirational family that seemed perfect, it was real life and very character driven. This stuff was really, could really happen to real people anytime. Yeah, like the anti Donna Reed, exactly, exactly. And so anyway, by how do I say this? While listening to that memoir, I was struck by how much edwick has influenced particularly my life when it comes to entertainment, TV or movies. And I just want to share a quick list of some of the
Unknown Speaker 53:18
programming and entertainment he was responsible for because I could track my Gen X life a little bit through his chronologically, through his career. So when we're talking TV, he we're talking family. That was his first show. We're talking Christy McNichol, family, okay, 1976 to 1980 he came in and directed and wrote episodes for that. He's only in his 20s, right out of the gate. Oh, my God, it was right out of the gate. And he and I,
Unknown Speaker 53:50
on Carolyn's advice, Brian and I started listening to Ed's wicks memoir. It's highly recommended you guys. It's so great. We're only we're only a couple hours into it, but yes, right out of the gate. And like you said, didn't he kind of save family too? Like, didn't he kind of come in and he was responsible. He started low, but then, like, the writer quit or something. And they're like, almost like, Boy you Yeah.
Unknown Speaker 54:15
And he was like, Okay. And when you think about it, that's also very real, yeah,
Unknown Speaker 54:24
of course, No, exactly you know, you really think that might have been what let what kind of paved the way both ABC shows, by the way, Battle of the network stars go ABC, yep, those all got the green light from from ABC. Then he went on after 30 something to do my so called Life, which I know some of our younger, well, younger than us Gen Xers. Maybe that was that's a cult classic for a lot of people. That's doing the same thing with 30 something, with the younger age group, exactly, high school. What are these everyday problems that they have? And then he went on to do once and again. Oh.
Unknown Speaker 55:00
Shop,
Unknown Speaker 55:01
I know. Okay, sometimes you don't know that. What you don't heard, yes, and then he did a bunch of movies, but probably the movie that put him on the map in terms of film credit, and it's probably my Gen X. What do I want to say? Just my Bible movie. I wanted this life before I had hope and Michael's life, this is the life I wanted in 1986 I wanted to be,
Unknown Speaker 55:27
I mean, Demi Moore in about last night. That was gold. He is about last night. Can you believe it? So I just he has a stamp on so many shows that defined a particular time in my growing up, there was family, then there was about last night, and then there was 30 something, and then there was, once again, he also did glory, which is a great section of that book when he talks about that movie and how it got made, and it's pretty powerful. And it wasn't just him he shares in the book that a lot of the actors, as well as other directors during 30 something and some of the other writers went on to do some pretty amazing things, like the birth of some particular TV shows, and other things happened because of 30 something. We know that Ken Olin goes on to become a show runner and a director, Timothy Busfield, the great Peter Horton slash Gary, thank God he didn't die in real life, because they're so neat, and that's why he had to die on the show, is because he had to go on and direct. Yes, just listen to this. Okay, the richness of their resumes since 30 something ended, and it's really hard to imagine television without some of these shows that I'm going to tell you right now. So besides Ken and Timothy and Peter Horton, our Patricia Melanie, they, a lot of them have gone on to do other things that were not necessarily acting, okay, and some of the other writers, camera show exactly. So they've gone on to be producers, directors, executive producers, show runners. Here's a list of the shows. Alias, my so called life, Friday Night Lights, brothers and sisters, Grey's Anatomy, parenthood, New Amsterdam, Breaking Bad without a trace. Nashville, once and again, damages Jane the Virgin in treatment. And this is us, unbelievable. Yeah. And you know, a lot of us watched a movie with Polly Draper that just came out with right now, Polly Draper, who is Ellen. She plays Ellen. It's called Shiva baby, and I loved it. It's a super annoying movie, but super quirky. And she is the star of that movie. She is so good.
Unknown Speaker 57:41
And
Unknown Speaker 57:43
many of them also directed episodes of 30 something, at least once. I know, like, you know, Peter Horton, Ken Olin, Timothy, Busfield, Patricia, too, right? Yeah, yeah, a good handful. And like even Mel Harris directed one. So, so they all tried their hand at it, and they all, you know, also, let's not forget Ed's wick and Marshall Herskovits were 30 something as well. They're the same age as the actors. So they all had this kind of very
Unknown Speaker 58:11
this relationship that wasn't like, I'm the director and you guys are the actors. They all were kind of on the level. And so Ed's wick there, you know, they didn't direct every episode. Certainly, they had lots of other people come in and direct as well. And direct as well. But then they were very open to saying to the actors, sure, give it a try. We got such great television from it. Yeah, and, and, and, certainly, you know, for a show that was only on for four years, it had a tremendous amount of awards. 30 something was nominated for a total of 91 awards. 63 nominations for the Primetime Emmy Awards, 28 nominations for the Golden Globes. It ultimately won 28 awards out of those nominations, 13 Emmys and two Golden Globes. Now there was a whole host of other organizations, like the Directors Guild of America, the Television Critics, blah, blah, blah,
Unknown Speaker 59:03
most of the awards were won in the first two seasons or the first three seasons. However, that second look episode just kind of cleaned up, too. Yeah, some some acting awards of note.
Unknown Speaker 59:17
The entire series won Outstanding Drama Series in 1988 so that would have been for season one.
Unknown Speaker 59:24
Timothy Busfield won in 1991 for Outstanding Supporting Actor in a Drama. Patricia wettig won 388 in 1988 1990 and 1991 for Outstanding Lead Actress in a Drama. These are Emmys. And so I'm like 8890 and 91 then, who won an 89 and that would have been Dana Delaney for China beach. So you kind of see who she's up against there. Melanie may run won an Emmy in 1989 for Best Supporting Actress The show won Outstanding Writing in 1988 Patricia weddick won the Golden Globe in 1990
Unknown Speaker 1:00:00
90 for Best Actress in a TV drama, and the show won the Golden Globe for Best Drama Series in 1989 so it was kind of cleaning up that is impressive. Yeah, 30 something also placed in the number 19 spot on TV guides, 50 greatest shows of all time, in 2002
Unknown Speaker 1:00:21
and in 2013 TV Guide placed it as number 10 in its list of the 60 greatest dramas of all time. This is for a show that was on for four years. Interestingly enough, when we were traveling not long ago, and I was at this bed and breakfast we were staying and I was chatting with one of the other women that was staying there, and somehow the fact that I had a podcast came up and talking about what it was about and, and so I shared with her that we were going to be doing an upcoming episode on 30 something, and she was like, dumbstruck. I mean, you would have thought I was one of the, you know, one of the actors right there. She could not believe. Are you kidding me? Like you would have thought I was Mel Harris, at the way this woman reacted. And she just starts, just oh my gosh, that show was everything to me. And she proceeds to tell me
Unknown Speaker 1:01:08
that at one point in her life, a few I don't know how many years ago this would have been, but she just had a rough go after a week of works, just things were not good. She was kind of at a low point. And she rented the entire series, all four seasons of 30 something, and she spent the whole weekend, this is before we could binge and all of that stuff, like our stream, she watched every single one of those episodes to make her feel better. And we know it's not like you're gonna laugh for all of that time. It was that that comfort again that we've talked about so often, and that nostalgia. And she said, those are my friends. And you know, those were your friends at a certain time. And so she spent, she said, it took exactly two full days to watch the whole series all the way through. But it was the bomb that she needed. It was one of those moments I think of like you too, like she just felt seen. Okay, I have a couple of fun facts that I wanted to share with you. Did you guys know that the word 30 something was added to the Oxford English Dictionary as a direct result of its popular usage from this series? Isn't that fun? When I saw that, it triggered a memory that the word 30 something was was new, like they had made up a word and were like, That's a cute word they made up. But would you if somebody asked you on the street, like, when did the word 30 something come? You think, Well, it always existed, but no, they notably, yeah, yeah, probably, yeah. Okay. Who do you guys think was the only actor to appear in all 85 episodes of the series. It's got to be hope. Doesn't have to be hope. Elliot,
Unknown Speaker 1:02:46
wrong, it's Ken Olin
Unknown Speaker 1:02:51
Michaels in every episode.
Unknown Speaker 1:02:54
Okay, I think this is really kind of a cool a cool thing. There's a scene in the episode called strangers showing Russell and Peter in a post coital conversation. Now I'm not really who was not remembering who Russell and Peter were. Exactly yes. So Russell is a really good friend of Melissa's. Wait, okay. Oh, okay, yeah, played by David Marshall grant, I think, and he meets Peter, who is who works at the ad agency. So Melissa is coming in to do some photography work and meet miles. And when and Russell comes with her. And then he is introduced to Peter, Peter, and they go on to have, yeah, to get to know each other, go on some dates, and they have the scene in bed together, which is, at that time, the first scene like that in television. Yeah, that's what I was about to say, yeah. So you never really see them kiss or do anything. You just see them in bed in a post coital conversation. And It's widely believed to be the first time gay male characters were ever shown in bed together in a sexual content on American network American network television, and just the fact that it was implied that they had sex was enough to prompt the loss of about $1.5 million worth of advertising revenue because a lot of the ad companies withdrew their commercials. So ABC pulled the episode out of rerun and syndication, and so the only time it was seen again was when the show was released on DVD. Oh, my God, they put Okay, so is it on? Is it is on the DVD so you can access it now, yes, I watched it on YouTube. It's on YouTube as well. Yeah, okay, okay. But yeah, yeah, if you missed it, then
Unknown Speaker 1:04:44
you missed it for a while. So Timothy Busfield, who you know listeners, longtime listeners, know he's a friend of ours. We like to call him Timmy.
Unknown Speaker 1:04:55
God, I got the biggest hug from Timothy Busfield in Chicago that time. And I don't know if you guys remember.
Unknown Speaker 1:05:00
It was, it was like, 2022, we had gone to see Melissa in this play, and she had asked it was right after we had interviewed her on the podcast. So she's like, stick around after, so I can say hi. And then she's like, Oh, Timmy is in that car behind you. And we're like, what, I feel like the Omicron variant had just resurfaced. So everybody's wearing masks. Like Melissa Gilbert was like, I wish I could hug you, but I'm in this play, and I have to wear this mask. And nope, Timothy Busfield gets out of the SUV, no mask, runs around the car, hugs me so hard, gives Brian shakes his hand with that big bro hug, hugs my daughter talk for a long time, gets back in and that we were all very, very aware of Purell and masks, and especially right then we walked down the street, Brian, because, you know, like, I told you I had made him watch, not made him he liked it, but you know the last three seasons of 30 something for sure, he's just holding his hand in front of him, and he's just like, if I get covid from Elliot, that's like,
Unknown Speaker 1:05:54
the coolest story I've ever had to tell in my life. And we get in the car, and I'm like, You want Purell? And he's like, Hell, no, I want to get
Unknown Speaker 1:06:03
covid from Elliot.
Unknown Speaker 1:06:06
Well, Timmy. Timmy was actually just 29 when he was cast in the pilot. He grew that beard so he would look old enough to play the part. Oh, 30 something. And now I think about seeing him in things when he's younger, and you can see his unbearded face. Oh yeah, yeah. TV show, family ties. Yeah. Family Ties. Ever not had a beard since? I don't think so can. I can't maybe,
Unknown Speaker 1:06:31
I mean, maybe I can't either. Yeah. So Michael Stedman, the character not Ken Olin. Michael Stedman was ranked number 46 and TV guides, list of the 50 greatest TV dads of all time. Oh, really, that was, I think,
Unknown Speaker 1:06:47
Okay, that was sexy time. I think for us, as you know, 20 year old women, to see a beautiful man fathering in a tender way like that, it just makes your ovaries kind of hurt. And oh yeah, I think that spoke, even if you weren't making, you know, even if you weren't Amy for that kind of life, that was something that was really sexy to observe. Oh yeah. I mean, Michael and hope are probably the number one reason I had, you know, my first daughter at age 26 because I was still like, Okay, we got married now we're supposed to have a daughter, that's right. And her name's Janie.
Unknown Speaker 1:07:24
I did like that name, but no. So this whole week, this conversation has been like therapy for me. I'm digging into my psyche and the things I wanted when I was growing up and like, we're talking about growing up for real, not growing up like, I want to be a horse girl when I grow up like, Who do I want to be? So it it may not have resonated with people who weren't grappling with what they wanted when they grew up, like my husband, and that's okay. That's okay. But I can't emphasize enough how revisiting this show is like turning over a stone and revealing my brain at a moment in time, examining your hopes and dreams and fears when you're kind of on the verge of choosing a path toward one of them. And if this was you, if you were like me, I highly recommend finding these episodes on YouTube and rewatching if it's not you, do not do this because it won't mean anything to you. It might look like a lot of people standing around complaining, which is why some people say it was the precursor to Seinfeld, and some people even say it's the precursor to friends. But for the three of us in this room, our time is up for today, ladies, and you can pay the receptionist on your way out,
Unknown Speaker 1:08:36
but, but wait, But wait, there's more in a final twist of fate that could only happen on the pop culture Preservation Society. We will book another session for next week where we will have a guest therapist.
Unknown Speaker 1:08:51
You guys, I can't it's I can barely even say it out loud, hope. It's hope. I'm not even kidding. I'm Mel Harris, the actor who played hope Stedman, is going to be our guest on our episode next week, giving us the inside scoop on this generational drama, which was not even our generation, but somehow spoke to our generation. Hope is going to be here next week. You guys, 19 year old Michelle is dead like she is on the I'm looking at her on the floor right now. Her ponytails all askew. That
Unknown Speaker 1:09:27
scrunchie. Y'all, I don't know this is my this is the biggest to me. And I have to do this now because I cannot do this next week. So I'm doing it now. Yes, do it now. Get it out. This is, this is my. Sean Cassidy, guest, this is the biggest guest, yes to me saying this to beginning Michelle and 56 year old Michelle, this is my biggest get yet. I I am going to be so chill next week. But from now until then, I am losing my flip.
Unknown Speaker 1:10:00
Being mind I am, you guys. What the what I mean? I just remember two years ago, I posted a picture on my Instagram of all my little 30 something, because she was talking about the reboot, and I was posting, I posted a picture of like, it's a picture of me and Brian. Next two pictures of hope and Michael and then the cast. And I said something cute about how that much that show meant to me, and I think I tagged her in it, and she liked it, and I thought that was going to do me in and now I've been emailing Mel Harris for the past three weeks, yeah, and I'm gonna have that moment that I've talked about with both of you guys when I love watching you have your moment. And yeah, it came in handy that you had that nice little bulletin board photo so you could post it. And she saw it, and,
Unknown Speaker 1:10:48
oh, that was years ago. That had nothing to do with this. I don't think she knows. I'm the same person,
Unknown Speaker 1:10:54
by the way. Maybe we'll keep that one to ourselves. We keep that on the DL guys, wouldn't it be curious thing to hold it up while she was on real time? No, no, no, no, we're not crossing to that line next week. Yeah, that's why everyone I'm getting it out right now. Okay, I promise y'all I'm going to be chill. I am. Yeah, there might be a substance involved to get me that way. I live in Colorado.
Unknown Speaker 1:11:23
Whatever it takes you guys are like, whatever it takes Michelle for you not to pull out the bullets the board. Well, anyway, this was the end of our episode, so we do appreciate you guys being excited with us. And I know a lot of you all listening out there loved the show like we did, and we love all of you we do, but we have a big bunch of folks who take their support of our podcast to the next level, over on Patreon, where they pledge a little bit of their allowance monthly to help us keep this podcast and social media society and all that we do afloat. And we like to thank them with goodies, like exclusive extras, and we mail them some goodies, and we have zoom events sometimes, and the very least we can do is to thank a group of them by name right here every week. Today, we're giving a shout out to Mary. Mary Beth Kim, Lisa Donovan, MP, Mike, Sandy, Alice, Elisa, Miriam, Linda and Diane.
Unknown Speaker 1:12:21
In the meantime, let's raise our glasses for a toast to hope and Michael Elliot and Nancy Gary and Melissa and Ellen, all courtesy of the cast of Three's Company, two good times, two Happy Days to Little House on the Prairie. Cheers. Cheers. The information, opinions and comments expressed on the pop culture Preservation Society podcast belongs solely to Carolyn the crushologist and hello Newman, and are in no way representative of our employers or affiliates. And though we truly believe we are always right, there is always a first time the PCPs is written, produced and recorded in Minneapolis, Minnesota, home of the fictional wjm studios and our beloved Mary Richards, Nanu, Nanu, keep on trucking and May the Force Be With You. You.