Mel Harris Talks ‘thirtysomething’ and Gives Us HOPE For a Reboot
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Hey guys, it's Mel Harris, and you're listening to the pop culture Preservation Society. You need to check them out.
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Hello World. Is a song that we're singing.
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Come on, get happy. A
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whole lot of love in this what we'll be bringing
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will make you happy.
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Welcome to the pop culture Preservation Society, the podcast for people born in the big wheel generation who pulled their socks all the way up to their knees. We believe our Gen X childhoods gave us unforgettable songs, stories, characters and images, and if we don't talk about them. They'll disappear like Marshall will and Holly on a routine expedition, and today we're talking with the woman who brought to life the 30 something character that so many of us aspired to be. Yes, that's right, it's Mel Harris who will forever be hope. Stedman, in our hearts, I'm Carolyn, I'm Kristin, and I'm Michelle, and we are your pop culture preservationists.
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Back in the late 80s, TV was filled with doctors and lawyers, detectives and dynasties, but then along came a show that felt different. It wasn't glossy or glamorous or scary, it was real. It gave us messy kitchens, complicated marriages and grown ups who didn't have it all figured out, and for more than one generation of viewers, that show was a revelation. I'm talking about 30 something, and at the center of all that frenzy was a woman, wife and mother who was thoughtful, strong, sometimes frazzled, but always with a perfect ponytail and a real big scrunchie.
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Hope, Stedman hope wasn't a flawless sitcom mom or the icy soap opera diva. She was us, the one we already were, or in my case, the person we aspired to be, for more than just that ponytail. And today we are absolutely thrilled and more than a little awestruck to welcome to the podcast the woman who brought hope to life. We're going to talk about what it was like to star in one of television's most groundbreaking dramas, why it resonated with so many of us 20 something Gen Xers, that season four shocker that we still aren't over, That one hurt and yes, settle down everybody, hopefully get some inside intel on the long awaited reboot.
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Big exhale, because 19 year old Michelle cannot believe she's saying this, but welcome to the pop culture Preservation Society. Mel Harris,
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thank you. Look at your pretty face.
Unknown Speaker 2:51
Oh gosh. This is so exciting for us. You have, well, I'm very excited to be here. I mean, just to say it's lovely, it's lovely, what you're doing and the subjects that you're addressing and the people you're having on it's great. Thank you so much. Appreciate that. We just really can't tell you how lovely it is to meet you and have you here to talk to us honestly. If we look composed, we're not.
Unknown Speaker 3:15
Thank you. I won't bite. I won't bite. We've We've worked hard on that, but as we talked about in last week's episode 30 something impacted all of us on pretty much a cellular level when we were in our early 20s. And I think for the rest of this conversation to go well, we need to each take 30 seconds to get some serious fangirling out of the way. So are you ready to receive some serious first part was, I know, I know. We're not done well now. We just need to, we just need to just get some things out, and then we can be a little more composed. So like for me, 30 something correlated exactly with my college years, 1987 to 1991 and season two correlated with the beginning of my romance with my now husband of 32 years, and yes to me, thank you, and yes to me, we we looked a lot like the younger versions of hope and Michael, which, okay, fine. I know that sounds weird, but we did. We did. I really did. We did. But my infatuation with the show might have had something to do with the fact that this life, this like messy, complicated life that was full though, and it was full of friendship and love, became my fairy tale, or, as I like to call it, my real fucked up fairy tale. If that was my fairy tale,
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what does that say about me? But to say that 30 something, and especially hope and Michael consumed me at age 1920, 2122 is to put up mildly.
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I could, and I often would project myself into that house, those situations, that world. I mean.
Unknown Speaker 5:00
Yeah, I was only 19. I was a child, so let's give her a little pass on that. And I've, I've often said, I have often said, I think on this podcast too, that the two shows that impacted me the very most in my formative years were Little House on the Prairie and 30 something, totally different ages. So Mel, to be meeting you and talking with you is truly an honor, and I just can't thank you enough for being here. Well, super I'm delighted to be here. Thank you. Yep, and Michelle, you did a great job with that. Because I just want to say, this is Michelle's like, ultimate celebrity interview. We've interviewed some people that you know, our little girl selves cannot believe but this has been such a dream for Michelle, and we're so happy that she kept her composure and thank you. Well, I did. Carolyn,
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I did. I did. I told him earlier, Mel, I'm gonna tell you too. I wrote a little letter to my 19 year old self in my journal this morning, and I told her she needed to calm the fuck down.
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She needed to remain composed, but yet I needed her with me. I needed her with me too. So
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we're glad she's here. So I am the oldest of the three of us, as Michelle had shared. And so when 30 something came out, I was just about to graduate college, pretty sure I was marrying the guy that I had been dating in college, and I was about to step into this real, grown up life and hope. And Michael were basically my blueprint. Okay, you were the show. The show was like my handbook for adulthood. You were doing it just a little bit ahead of when what I was going to be doing. And I studied, and when I say studied it, this is real. I studied the way you two navigated everything, marriage, friendships, careers, even your dinner parties, all of those things were just right out of reach. But kind of the path that I was going to take you were like my guides, and it was like I was cramming for a test called being a grown up, and I was getting all the Cliff Notes from you guys, and I was going to get it right, you were the grown up that I aspired to be, kind of like Michelle said, because you were beautiful, poised, thoughtful, smart, but just messy enough to be real, like you were attainable. You weren't like the soap opera diva that you kind of referred to Michelle. It was like, Oh, I can. We can fight. We can argue with our friends and our, you know, significant others, and we can come out on the other side. And this, it's messy, but it's real and really for our generation. I think this is one of the first programs that showed that, and it, again, was such a guide. So truly, those first few years of my marriage and adulthood, I'd find myself saying, well, w, w, HD, what would hope
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do?
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I can get you into trouble.
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Now, I didn't say, WwM be like, What would
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Mel do? But yeah, hope was, she was that guiding star. She was that for a lot of people, that's lovely. Thank you. Oh, you're Well, glad that the character affected people the way it did. Yes, yeah, it is. It's super fun to be sitting here with you today, almost, almost, I gotta say this out loud, almost 40 years after we first met on my TV set in my dorm room in moan Hall at St Olaf College. And I'm, I'm so I'm so happy right now. I'm not actually starstruck, and I'm remarkably calm and happy because I don't feel like this is a celebrity interview. I feel like I'm meeting with an old friend. And I don't know if that sounds creepy,
Unknown Speaker 8:43
but I think that's a testament to not just your acting chops, but
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but maybe to your ability to connect connect with your audience on a very personal level. I don't know if you meant to do that, but you did, and it's your contribution to the world. It's really great. So all of the women on my floor gathered together every Tuesday night in my in my dorm room to watch 30 something together, and in my entire college experience, all four years, there was no other show that did this. There was no other show that we committed to this heart, not Cosby, not family ties, not Moonlighting. 30 something was the only show we cared about with our whole heart, and we huddled together every week as like new adults and as as women who really weren't sure of what our future looked like and and that's why talking with you today is so important, because, because you really left a mark. So thank you. Thank you for your contribution to our coming of age, really, and thank you for honoring that by by being here with us today.
Unknown Speaker 9:47
Well, you're welcome. I feel such a responsibility for the generation.
Unknown Speaker 9:54
Well, that's really interesting, because that that is something that I actually really wondered about, this is I've been thinking.
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Thinking about this for a long time. I want to talk about the target audience. Who did you think you were making the show for? Was it for the 30 somethings you portrayed, or was it for the pre 30 somethings who were gathering in their dorm rooms, who we weren't even there yet, because as far as we were concerned, it was 100% for us. But why? I don't know why we thought that. So I'm wondering who were you hearing well, like I said in beginning, who did you think you were making it for, and who were you hearing from more the people who could relate to you, or was it the 20 year olds?
Unknown Speaker 10:35
Well, I have a long winded answer to that. I don't know that. I consciously went in there knowing enough about the business to know who we were making it for. I mean, clearly, at that time, with the way the networks were, there were basically three networks. Fox was just kind of coming up, afterthought, probably. But, you know, they want to sell, they want to sell, you know, laundry soap and toilet paper and all those things. I mean, Procter and Gamble all that. That's, that's, that's the biggest thing our demographic, the demographic is, you know, women, 21 to 50 probably is like the sweet spot, and then within that there are others. But I don't know that we really thought about it. And, you know, I went into it. I love the script. I thought it was great, and that's what I was really interested in. One of the things that first surprised me after we were on it, we were
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successful. I remember when the reviews came out, half loved us and half hated us. And I tell this story a lot, but I pinned all the bad ones on my refrigerator because it's a dose of reality of what it was. But as we went on and we were even more successful, and our demographics were insane,
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a lot of the people who didn't like us in the beginning came back and re reviewed us, and so that was so that was, that was a really, really interesting thing. And I remember being in New York City. We shot in Los Angeles. I remember being in New York City early on, I can't exactly remember why,
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and I was down in the village, and a gentleman came up to me and just went bats about the fact that it was hope, and going on about how much the show meant to him and how lovely it was. And he was probably in his late 20s or something, and this gentleman was gay, and I was just blown away by that. So there's a huge contingent in so many places, people watched it with I have people now writing to me all the time. I watched this with my mother. They were little. There was a whole there's a whole contingent of people who are now, especially if we get to do a reboot, want to watch it with their kids or re watch it with their mother. I mean, it's just so it cut. Yes, we had the core group. I mean, you guys, the college thing was very big, and certainly it was water cooler talk the next day in offices and businesses and all of that. But it was also women dragging their husbands to it, and sometimes husbands dragging their wives to it. So yeah, it was such a broad scope. We talked about our this a little bit in our conversation last week, where we did sort of figure out why we were so attracted to the show. Because even as I was watching it,
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no Gary, it was scary.
Unknown Speaker 13:07
That was That definitely played a role. But even if I, as I was watching it, I was confused, because I didn't think that that's what I was going for. I was very much into being a 20 year old, but we all identified our different reasons for being there, and we'll get into this a little bit later. But for me, I realized it was the friend group and and I think we'll talk about that. It's the core, it's the nucleus of 30 something. Yeah, we've been listening to as wicks book, which is so great. He has such great intel on 30 something, and talking about making it purposefully, just this kind of regular life, just kind of a day in the life, or a marriage, a work relationship, friend groups that are in their young 30s, because he was in his young 30s, and he's really saying he's modeling this after him and his wife and Marshall and his wife, and then you all would bring in stories, and he'd put them in the show all the time. And even even in our young 20s we were, we hadn't seen really anything like that, like I said earlier. It was the dynasties and the Dallas's and the everything. So we really did connect with the friendship we talked last week about, you know, watching, watching, you know, Michael and Gary and Elliot together was just like watching our college age guy friends together, it was the same humor, and watching hope and Melissa and Ellen and, you know, Nancy talk about the guys, which is the same thing we were doing. So it was so relatable, and that's what we loved so so much about it was the community that you all created, and we were dying to get in that friend group, like, we wanted to be part of it. So we wanted to see, we wanted you to speak to the importance of the friendships, both how they were portrayed, between the characters, like, why was that important? Do you think in the show? And then did any of those friendships that we.
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Saw those strong bonds. Did they transfer off screen as well?
Unknown Speaker 15:06
Well? I mean, I think that, as I said before, the nucleus of the show was the core of those seven friends and and
Unknown Speaker 15:17
it was so important because it was always, you can always come to hope in Michael's house, which clearly was the center, geographically in terms of that, but also just the dynamics, I think that the guys in Marshall and our entire writer's room, Richard Cramer, Joe Dougherty, just
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liberty.
Unknown Speaker 15:37
Gotcha, I don't want to leave anybody out, but it was, it was just an amazing take on reality. I remember when I auditioned for the show, I didn't know anybody. I was pretty green in Hollywood. I'd been there for a year. I'd done a pilot the year before, that didn't go and I,
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I walked into the office and I said to Ed and Marshall, I wonder how long you've been living with me, and I didn't know it,
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because I was the mother of a young child. My son was probably three at the time, and, you know, married, and it was just so real, you know, I so identified with all that that was going on. Of course, they laughed and whatever. Anyway, I got the job, which was nice, because I had a lot of real, you know, own experience.
Unknown Speaker 16:22
But I think that that core, that reality, that thing, where you all can sit there and go, Wow, I like this. I want to do this, I want to do that. I don't want to do this, or, you know, whatever that was, I think it was really important to people, and it wasn't, it wasn't glitzy, no, it was real
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and raw. And I think that, yeah, and Ron, I think that that became important. What's your second question just then? Did those friendships, you know that we saw the core? Did they transfer off like because, of course, we would all believe that you and you know you and that's, you know, yeah, you and Polly were really good friends on screen, or anything, you know, right? Well, here's the dynamic is that none of what you saw in terms of friendships on the screen are the same as our friendships off the screen, because we're all different. You know, people often say to me, you know, are you a lot like hope? And I say, Well, no, I actually think we're very different. I think she's probably more patient than I am, or maybe I'm more patient than her. I can't remember anymore, but we do look a lot alike,
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but the really amazing, wonderful thing is that all seven of us have remained friends. Have been friends, still are. I talked to Peter Horton yesterday about something, actually, about the reboot.
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And you know, I could call any of them. They could call me and say, I need this. Can you do this? Can Polly, when she was doing her movie, the tip code? Can you show up at the screening? And, you know? And there we go, and we do it. And so there's this,
Unknown Speaker 17:54
I don't know, and I feel so blessed by it, because I know it doesn't exist for a lot of shows to have that kind of I think the friends group has probably done that with them on their show. They all seem rather close knit, and so it's lovely, and we're all over. We've all gone on to have these amazing careers. We've been very blessed that way.
Unknown Speaker 18:11
And you know, we were in the trenches for four years. We were all pretty much green. I think maybe Ken was the most experienced of us, but even Ed and Marshall, you know, nobody was, like, super entrenched in the series world and all of that. So, yeah, we're still all friends guys. We have a very special 30 something texting thing. Nobody,
Unknown Speaker 18:34
you know, it's kind of cool. It's like, it's, it sounds like a family. It's just, it's just, it's there, yeah, the basis is there, built on that show. Built it. Built being in the trenches, 16 to 18 hours a day, shooting,
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learning things on there that we we all didn't know, and practicing it. And you know, it just it was an amazing experience, amazing experience that is so satisfying.
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Yeah, it just shows you how me too, was how invested we were.
Unknown Speaker 19:04
Yes, it was yes. That's just how invested we were in your relationships, that we what we the relationships on the show, were so believable to us that we were really hoping that that, that that meant something outside the world of you know, beyond the cameras. And it sounds like it really did. It did for us, I think, for different reasons than playing those characters together, was more about supporting each other in scenes. And you know, it just goes on and on the list of, does that mean we all never had words with each other occasionally, or didn't like something somebody did? Or like any relationship? Probably one, not a lot of words, but, but that's what a family does, exactly, right? This is reality. You don't even bother That's right, yeah, but that's why 30 something was so groundbreaking, because it was, like we said, not just the relationships, the the marital relationships, showing us a really, real glimpse into it. It was friend relationships as well. Because.
Unknown Speaker 20:00
Oh, listen, you guys didn't all get along. You know, there were times when Ellen was really mad at Michael in the beginning, you know, Michael told everybody about the tattoo. Or no, who did? Maybe that was Nancy who told remember, Ellen had the tattoo anyway.
Unknown Speaker 20:13
But that's what was so great about it. It was all just, it was real life. It wasn't a laugh track, like, you know, in a sitcom where they're arguing and everybody's laughing. And it wasn't like dynasty where if they get in a fight, they're dragging each other into a swimming pool or a pond. Yeah, it was the real type where people held grudges and said things they shouldn't have said and stuff like that.
Unknown Speaker 20:35
Oh, yeah, that's and I think because I would, I would think I'm not an actor by any stretch, but so many of those scenes, you had to be vulnerable like you really, had to strip down and be at different level than you would be for some of those shows you just mentioned Michelle and I think that to feel safe enough to be that vulnerable with other people over that amount of Time has to bond you in such a way that we're so glad, at least in our minds, that what we hoped is true, that you all have stayed in touch, and very much so, haven't you? And you do? You know, when you do scenes like, I mean, I've done a lot of things, and some of them don't come anywhere, but you know, you're digging up special things to be able to get yourself in wherever it is you need to be first seen. And, you know, the writing was impeccable. It was just,
Unknown Speaker 21:32
it was crazy great. I mean, I'm absolutely it's just crazy great. And to the moment, and like, sometimes all monologs were really long.
Unknown Speaker 21:42
It's so interesting because we're three. Of us are writers and so back then, I just loved the show, but now going back and rewatching, you know, episodes and stuff, I do notice the writing and I note and I appreciate it so much more now just again, having being a writer and knowing what it takes to have that kind of voice. And it was, it was, again, we keep saying the word real, but that's how it was, just that quick, that back and forth, those kind of jokes, everything was just so spot on. And that is hard to do, to make something seem so real. You think it would be easy, but it's hard. And we it is hard, it is hard to make it believable. Yeah, I think so. And you guys did such a great job of that. Either, you know, for us, it was like, again, we've said, looking a little bit ahead at what is to come, kind of like the cheat sheet so incredible. And we each In last week's episode, talked about our favorite moments with your characters and on the show. Okay, I remember them. Well, I'm sure that we won't bore you with all of ours, but we're gonna ask you, and I'm sure you get asked this a lot, but what was I'm not gonna ask you your favorite I'm gonna ask you like your most, the most meaningful episodes for you. Well, the pilot was meaningful because it was all new and we were all starting and we're getting it done and putting it together. So there's that the first, the first season's Christmas show, the Hanukkah. I call it the Hanukkah
Unknown Speaker 23:13
Christmas. Yeah, it's one of my favorites. Yeah. One that was hardest for me was when my father in law was dying because he physically looked like my father, and I remember going in he was in the hospital and not my father, the actor playing my father, and I walked in to do rehearsal, and I literally had an anxiety attack because it so reminded me of visiting my father,
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who had passed away a couple years earlier, and I said to the assistant director when I came out, I said, Look, I'm here. I'm ready. I can do this, but do not call me until basically the cameras are rolling. Because I, you know, that wasn't, it wasn't a breakdown scene about bringing your own stuff in. So that was really, that was hard, literally, and just the emotional of it and keeping it in a place where it belonged. Yeah,
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I love the show I directed, because I got to direct Timmy and Kenny, and that was really fun. Which episode was that it's called out the door and the boys are basically, I call it the boys divorce. Oh, yeah, supposed to decorate, am I supposed to direct? And the person who was supposed to direct out the door had a personal reason that they fell out until the guys came to me, like the week before, and said, Can you do this? I said, Well, of course, I can. I'm from New Jersey. There you
Unknown Speaker 24:34
go. And it was a wonderful experience. And the guys were great and very supportive. And you know, it was just a really supportive group, you know, and I always loved, I loved the babies. The babies were wonderful. We had twins who played Janie, and they were fabulous. And so I felt like they were my babies, and their mom trusted me, that I would protect them. I always protect children on a set, always, always,
Unknown Speaker 24:56
and, you know, playing under the dining room table in the steady.
Unknown Speaker 25:00
In house. It's just, like, just crazy fun, great stuff. Yeah, I mean, talk about moments. Yeah, Ed's wick and his book. I've been listening to it on Audible, and he tells this story, I want to see your take on it. First of all, he's just not he it's so great all the 30 something stuff. He loves you guys so much. And he says that one time he called you in to reshoot a scene, and you were nine months pregnant at the time, and he called you in to reshoot and he's talking about like, that's how much of a pro Mel Harris is. I worked till the day I dropped I'll tell you that story in a second. Wow. And I called myself the walking walrus. I have very big pregnancies, very big pregnancies. And I worked, I mean, I worked three days after my my child was born. Wow, I was back on the on the set. I was something I'd shoot, and I was looping, doing a dialog replacement, that kind of thing. But the real having the baby, have baby Leo, to fans of the show, is I was pregnant, supposed to work. I was nine months, probably about a week from my due date. And I woke up one morning about 430 and my water had broken, which had happened before, already in labor. So I woke my husband, I told him, You know, it's time. And the next person I called was the assistant director, the second assistant director of 30 something, I said I've gone into labor, so I'm not coming to this set today, and I still have the call sheet, which is our schedule for the day. And on the top of it, it says, Mel goes into labor, which is a lovely memento. But the funny thing that I just learned from the assistant director, who I'm still in contact with, is that the next the first call he made was to Tim Busfield, who was in Sacramento, where he had a children's theater and lots of things going on, and told him to get his butt down to LA, because he was the B, the B schedule in terms of doing that. Yeah, so, and they were great. They wrote it into the script and and all of that. They were really, really generous and lovely and kind about that. That's so nice. That's where we get baby Leo, then is because you and that's baby Leo, yes, yeah, mine wasn't a male, but baby Leo, yes, yeah, I was watching last night. So, you know, you can watch, I don't have all of them, but most of them on YouTube, which I hate doing, because you guys should be getting these. Need to be streaming. It would take off. There would be now even a whole another generation that would love it. Look at the generation that has latched on to Gilmore Girls, right? I think that would happen with 30 something. I absolutely do, and we will be the champions for that. I tell you, I think this is my opinion, but it's somebody disagree with me. I think there's a timeless quality, so I don't think that, like, let's say you were a young, 30 year old today, I don't think you'd be watching that show, and think you're watching people in the 80s, I really don't well, except for the clothes. And even the clothes were kind of tempered though, just
Unknown Speaker 27:49
shoulder pads, shoulder pads. And there it's everything I wore. So I'm watching this finale last night, and oh my god, hopes the white tennies with the giant scrunchie, white socks, socks. God, why did we
Unknown Speaker 28:06
bring that whole look back,
Unknown Speaker 28:11
the T shirts tucked in the pleated shorts Michael's little waist and then his pants couldn't be more pleated. Yeah. Anyway, I do think, and this is really to your point, Kristin, because this even today, how many years later would be relevant? I'm watching that finale last night, and I had kind of, I had forgotten about it. My husband did gift me the season of DVDs when they first came out. The first season, I think, is all that was out at the time, or something. We don't even have a DVD player anymore. He missed three anniversaries.
Unknown Speaker 28:43
Okay, well, by the way, when I opened that that Christmas, I started crying. So it was the finale is really groundbreaking, because you have Michael having this realization that he doesn't want to go backwards as hope tells him angrily, and that he still doesn't know what he wants to be when he grows up. But what he wants to do now is fully support hope, and because she does know now what she was meant to do and what she wants to do. And I'm like, that was 1991 I mean, you see the first half of that episode, he's gonna go back to, you know, he's gonna make commercials with Elliot, they're gonna go back to milestone, tell they're gonna and Hope's like, hell no. And then he because she's realizing that's just him being, you know, I have to do something. I have to do something. She knew this isn't what you want to do. But that's really groundbreaking for 1991 and Kristen. I think if that was on today, it wouldn't be like, Oh, that's antiquated. That's, that's what people used to think. I think they would still be like, oh, yeah, I'm going through that with my spouse right now. It's still a conversation that people have to have. Just because people more are more open minded about what the options are, doesn't mean there isn't a struggle over what those choices are. No, yeah, no, absolutely. It's it's hard.
Unknown Speaker 29:56
Yeah, it's great, but it's hard. That's what your show.
Unknown Speaker 30:00
Was all about, it's hard, and we can show the hard parts, and, yeah, let people know there's another side to the hard parts. And, you know well, and like I said earlier, the raw parts. Because, God, there's a part in that finale that, even watching it last night, my I just, I just had that icky feeling inside. I mean, Hope's like I'm leaving. And she even tells Ellen, it feels like my marriage now. Ellen says everything we all think, but you guys are hoping Michael, you're hoping Michael. And says, No, but you don't understand. It feels like the covers have been ripped off me and I'm just cold, you know? And you're like, oh. And you think, now, now me, like, 32 years of marriage. I'm like, Oh, we've gone through, you know? We you go through times like that, right? And so it's real again.
Unknown Speaker 30:46
Well, something happened in season four, February 12, 1991 to be exact. Not that you knew that by heart,
Unknown Speaker 30:57
I would love to say, not like that, like I know that by heart. I didn't, I had to look up the date,
Unknown Speaker 31:03
but it punched us all in the gut, and it quite literally took the breath out of us. And it's something I think that 30 something fans have never gotten over,
Unknown Speaker 31:13
as I'm sure you're aware. I'm sure they tell you all the time. And I'm of course, talking about the episode called second look, where just as we all exhaled to discover that Nancy has beaten that battle with ovarian cancer that I don't know about y'all but I was like, every week I'm like, it's gonna be the bad news. It's gonna be the bad news. No, you're so happy. Gary, quite shockingly, quite suddenly, and oh, so tragically, is killed.
Unknown Speaker 31:41
So you know we all everybody listening right now. You guys all know how that made you feel. We know we all know it. My roommate and I didn't see it at the same time I opened the door. The next day, we ran to each other and embraced and just started holding each other. We couldn't believe what had happened, but what we want to know is, how did you all find out about this plot twist? And we want to know what your reactions were when you read that. And if like us, you still have not gotten over it, and if you have, could you tell us how
Unknown Speaker 32:12
you did it
Unknown Speaker 32:15
been a long time. Ladies, what can I tell you? Sometimes you got to move on.
Unknown Speaker 32:20
Sort of found out. I think I'm sure Peter knew ahead of time. I'm sure, I hope
Unknown Speaker 32:25
so. Well, yeah, also, but Peter is also directing a lot on the show, and you know, it's not like he disappeared from our lives. You know, those other seven that you say went on to have relationships after he was still there. It wasn't like thinking and he never showed up, so he was just gone.
Unknown Speaker 32:42
Whoop
Unknown Speaker 32:44
it was.
Unknown Speaker 32:48
It was hard and powerful and, you know, and apropos for how the show wrote and how they developed things and always giving you something that you didn't expect. And
Unknown Speaker 33:02
you know, it's one of the great talents that Ed and Marshall as our show runners creators possessed as as well as the other writers. And
Unknown Speaker 33:14
yeah. So I think we all felt that ache that one of us, one of the seven, would be gone.
Unknown Speaker 33:21
And I remember filming the scene in the hospital when
Unknown Speaker 33:25
Ken turns me, Michael Ken, and tells me, and it's just, you know, it's a punch in the gut.
Unknown Speaker 33:36
Gary's dead.
Unknown Speaker 33:40
I had a message from police officer, and
Unknown Speaker 33:47
he wants me I have to go to a hospital. I have to go to another hospital. They want me to help. I tell
Unknown Speaker 33:58
can
Unknown Speaker 34:21
hmm. And
Unknown Speaker 34:24
it's once again, you know, we talked before about the emotions you bring to these characters and how real they are, and that's a place where you bring that, you know, you just don't offhand go, Oh, great. Oh, well, bye, Gary.
Unknown Speaker 34:36
And so it affects your character, and it's important to stay true to that and honest with what that means. I mean, it was just like,
Unknown Speaker 34:46
your gobsmacked by what just happened, and it can't be real, and it can't be right. And also, we're all too young. You know, it's like even Nancy having cancer, she's just, she's just too young. It's just too you know, you don't believe that. You know, when it happens to.
Unknown Speaker 35:00
People who are older, you go like it is part of the natural course of being, of life and stuff. When it happens to younger people, it's
Unknown Speaker 35:08
shocking, alarming, right? And it's just, it's just, it's just really hard. So, yeah, it was a really powerful, powerful script. Do you remember how the public reacted,
Unknown Speaker 35:20
kind of like you all did.
Unknown Speaker 35:23
They were angry. They was angry, pissed. Yeah, that was me. Hearts broken. How are we going to look at Peter Horton anymore? You know, the Ogle factor was now removed, but, you know, he came back enough and flashbacks and things, but it was, it was a little bit, I think, that the sense was of people who
Unknown Speaker 35:47
it really got to, in effect, it was, how dare you do this to us? That's how I felt. Dare you and you know what? That's what Ed and Marshall were really good at. How dare you put two gay guys in a bid together? How dare you have a couple fight? How dare you have a mother contemplating that she wants to go back to work when she has this beautiful little baby that some people think she should stay home and only do that, they were really good at ticking those boxes. Wow. They were really good at being real. Those are real things. And last week, when we talked about this episode, we talked about this, we're so happy, like we're on this roller coaster of being so so happy for Nancy and right at the same time this tragedy happens. And much like some things that are happening in our world right now, it's like, how do you balance being so happy and excited about something that's so good in your life, while at the same time holding this tragedy, and that's so real. And that's, you know, we
Unknown Speaker 36:51
talk about that. How can we be happy for Nancy if we're grieving, you know, Peter Horton and but yet, that's life that's real. Yeah, sorry, Gary, not Peter, thank God. But it's also important. It's also, you know, it's, it's awful, but life goes on, right? And
Unknown Speaker 37:13
there, there, I had young children to take care of, and a husband who just lost his best friend in the whole world. And, you know it, mourning is hard. Tragedy is even harder.
Unknown Speaker 37:29
But in my case, people that I've lost would not want me to go into a crying pit and not and abandon my life. They would want me to go on living and make what their contribution was to me in my life even more powerful, right? And, you know,
Unknown Speaker 37:50
it's just hard, yeah, and the perfect example of that is that you have to make an episode to come after that one, and we have to, and we're going to show up for that episode too. I can't imagine that, because we all wanted to know what to do after Gary died, and so we have to show up the following week. You had to make another episode. You had to show your characters going on the following week. And how do we all go on? And so that's exactly what you're talking about. They're showing us the realities of of the of a road map to what to do in the face of tragedy.
Unknown Speaker 38:26
Oh, for sure, to you all. We look to you all. I remember the next week very well, and I remember thinking, first of all, I hope it was a dream. Maybe it was
Unknown Speaker 38:37
just
Unknown Speaker 38:40
he was never killed. But there was so much comfort in looking to you all, because also, let's not forget it was so senseless. Kristen was telling us, reminding us last week, and I had forgotten that it was Michael who was like, Don't ride your bike. It's snowing. And then when he finds out. He's like, I told him not to ride his bike. And they're like, Oh no, no, he wasn't riding his bike. He was in a car. So the senselessness of it made it so hard to hold both of those things at once, the Nancy and then the senselessness of it. But like, we've just all said, that's life well, and it's also sorry. Sometimes I feel like this is us talking at Mel
Unknown Speaker 39:22
Harris, I think in the reality part of it, they got the opportunity to show us how messy the grief is, because you had now six people who are all going to grieve in in different ways, and some of it was going to be awkward, right? Like the like Ellen sitting there with Gary's widow and trying to figure out, what the hell do I say to her and she's just sitting there, and am I what do she her character also thought before Gary died, that's right. About talking to
Unknown Speaker 39:49
it carries through like they're being true of the characters. And it's and it's not. They're not painting a lovely picture of grief, necessarily. They're more like, I don't know how to do this. I think you.
Unknown Speaker 40:00
Right? Is it your character actually says, I don't know how to do this? I can't remember, but it was all very again, relatable. I mean, real, how to do it? Oh, it's again, when you're so young, like that, right? It's, it's so true, it's real, and it's okay to say that, like, I think we got that permission to, like, it's okay to say, I don't know what I'm doing, I don't know how to do this, because you guys did that and and came out on the other side. So I think that was, I mean, one of the things I will say talking about an audience who looks at this and Gary's gone,
Unknown Speaker 40:33
yet we, as the actors, knew it was right there. So yeah,
Unknown Speaker 40:37
we had that sort of reality benefit. Wait, what I
Unknown Speaker 40:47
Yeah, well, I want to, I don't think it's the elephant in the room, but we really want to ask you about the reboot, about getting the streaming. What
Unknown Speaker 40:59
we know that you are all set to do this before 2020 when the world came crashing down on all of us, and, gosh, you teased us. I remember the picture you were in an elevator, and it was like, everybody was on one of your Instagram posts, and you had masks. And so I was thinking, okay, they're just, they're gonna push through. They're just gonna wear their masks when they have to. And we were so excited. It was the hope. It was literally the hope that,
Unknown Speaker 41:23
right, happened. And then, of course, we know what happened, that it didn't happen, yeah, but is it going to happen? I mean, can you share anything? Well, I don't actually, that picture was taken after we had finished our we had a, we had a that day, literally, we had the network read through for the network, sort of in the afternoon, and then there was a dinner that night with the network only, between the read through and the dinner, it was canceled. Oh my god, we all decided to meet and have dinner in the hotel where we had done the read through just our group, Ed and Marshall, and everybody was there, except I think Ken wasn't, because he was shooting a show and was flying it, literally flying in
Unknown Speaker 42:06
and that in, and we knew that we had been postponed, but nobody knew what was happening with the world that way. No idea that it was going to go whoa, and that that photo is literally this gang in the elevator, kind of saying goodbye at that moment. We didn't know that we wouldn't come back, but that would, that's really like a goodbye picture. It kind of looks fun, and we're all goofing and doing whatever. But yeah, so what was the question again? Oh, just what? Where is it? We want it back. We want Okay, so here's the deal. Here's the scoop. After so ABC did not make it even, and they made nothing that year. I think they did a David Kelly pilot that was pre bought or something. I mean, they did nothing, as opposed to making 20 pilots crazy. And,
Unknown Speaker 42:56
you know, and for about two years, two whole years, the business was awful. I mean, it was terrible, maybe three and I think it's just getting back on its legs, and by that time, the whole streaming thing has changed immensely, and there's that so ABC wasn't interested in again, and I know that Marshall and Ed
Unknown Speaker 43:19
were working on, trying to sell it to other places, and didn't really have that success. And at some point,
Unknown Speaker 43:27
the wonderful Peter Horton came back, came into the picture, and he and Ed were friends before they did 30 something, so they knew each other. And Peter came into 30 something wanting to direct, and that was his deal. He would act, but he also had a directing deal,
Unknown Speaker 43:43
and he's gone on to do amazing things with his career. So Peter, really, honestly, not that Ed and Marshall haven't and haven't tried, but Peter has been the absolute soldier behind keeping this alive in a big, big way.
Unknown Speaker 43:59
So what I know is more than I can tell you. Oh, that's good. It's not like I can say it's a done deal, so I can't do that, okay, but there's like, I just have to be judicious about what I say. So
Unknown Speaker 44:16
the possibility of a sequel is very much alive. Oh, my God. I mean, it's very much much alive, as opposed to Gary's character, but
Unknown Speaker 44:29
so it's very much a lie. Can't tell you the steps it is, but it's good. It hopefully we'll know something soon. Ish, okay, but it this is, I've been updating people like my first update that I did on Instagram got over 350,000
Unknown Speaker 44:47
views about whether there was a sequel. I mean, it's just insane. I mean, it's just and every day there are questions, questions, questions, questions, questions, questions, the ones that you're asking me. So it's still in progress. Okay, we're up.
Unknown Speaker 45:00
Optimistically hopeful, to quote Peter Horton,
Unknown Speaker 45:04
and you know, we're at the mercy of the people the studio.
Unknown Speaker 45:11
Who can we put it? Use the phone number. We do. We'll call them. Well, I will let you know if I find out. And so it's still, both are still very much alive. Okay, good, because we're still coming of age. We are still waiting to grow up, and we still need to know what comes next for us. Out there, we have all the answers. Don't worry
Unknown Speaker 45:33
about
Unknown Speaker 45:35
and especially, although you guys know all this, we're not like, smarter than you by any stretch, but gosh darn it. Talk about a demographic, our demographic right now. We have money to spend. We are empty nesters. We we can do a lot. We're smart. We're smart women. Peak earning potential is where we are right now, right? Totally, totally, yeah. People need, you know, y'all need a 30 something t shirt to buy so, you know,
Unknown Speaker 46:01
I would wear that. We love your Instagram, by the way. We love your we love your Instagram. We We love your 30 something Thursdays and people listening, please follow me on Instagram, because she answers questions. Like, if you leave her a DM and ask her a question, you might see her answer it on a Thursday. And it's actually really good intel, like behind the scenes stuff I was there.
Unknown Speaker 46:24
I talked about the Stedman kitchen last Yes,
Unknown Speaker 46:30
and these are all answers to questions that people have asked, yeah. I love that. Yeah. It's been a really successful series that my social media guy made up. Want that I wanted to mention too to people. If you follow Mel on Instagram, Mel, we love your silkies. Those are chickens, by the way. People we she washes them and she blow dries that she does that was like a spa day I did. And your cat and your chicken spa cat, fish, man, fish is the best adopted off the streets of New York City as a kitten during covid It was homeless. Oh, he's a great cat. He lives up in the farm now. Yeah, he's so he's so cute. Well, before we let you go, we want to play. We want to play a quick game with you that we play with all of our celebrity guests. It's sort of like our version of stars. They're just like us, kind of showing that you know nothing, that you're gonna ask us. No, no, it's not hard. It's not trivia. It's showing that we're all that we all had a childhood, and we all had things that were important to us, no matter where in the timeline we were children. So the first question for you is, what was your favorite TV show when you were 10 years old? Boy, I
Unknown Speaker 47:44
don't know, I don't know if I'm gonna get the time right on it, but it's probably, it's probably the Superman Batman thing. I mean, the wild world of Disney sort of different. Yeah, I would say probably,
Unknown Speaker 47:59
yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay, what was the first album that you bought with your own money, or even if it wasn't with your own money, like the first album that belonged to you? I remember once when I just moved into New York City at the ripe age of 17, and I am called into one of those radio shows where you like the 20th person, yeah, an album. And I got to pick and I picked Bette Midler.
Unknown Speaker 48:21
That was pretty and I it wanted for free, an album, and it was Bette Midler, who's incredibly cool. So, yeah, very cool, my goodness, and you moved to New York at 17, just a child, basically, oh, yeah, who knew? I can't believe. I think I would have croaked if my kids wanted to move to the city at 17. I wouldn't have but yeah. Okay, what was your first concert?
Unknown Speaker 48:48
Probably the Allman Brothers. Really you are. I had a boyfriend. My high school sweetheart was very into the Allman Brothers. We were, sorry, this kind of group. So, yeah, I think that's probably what it was. Okay. Do you remember if you had any posters on your wall?
Unknown Speaker 49:06
I'm pretty sure I had an Aretha Franklin poster on my Oh, my gosh, that's a first
Unknown Speaker 49:12
one. Yeah, yeah. It was good. I remember vowing I would always know what the top 10 records were, which of course songs were. And I course, I don't have any idea anymore. Did you record them like in a little notebook with a purple pen? Kristen asking journal. I have
Unknown Speaker 49:30
little pieces of journal all across my life. Oh, fun. I don't have a journal so, but that top 10 was important to you? Yeah, I don't know why you'd listen to it. It it was coming out, yeah, top 10. It was cool. It was important to me. I felt like I was I was documenting history. But at the same time, I was also getting inside the music. And that was important to me as a kid.
Unknown Speaker 49:53
People were singing about lyrics and writing things that touched you. Yes, right? It was all important. It was the it.
Unknown Speaker 50:00
Is the soundtrack to our lives. Yeah? Thank you. Those are great, yeah. That helps us get to know who you are, and you know that you you were a kid, you were a person coming of age. You were a teenager at one time too. It's just fun to hear. Oh, I was, well, Mel, we can't tell you how much we've enjoyed this. This has been both unreal, but yet very, very real, so real for the three of us. And yeah, thank you so much. I think I feel like we I feel like we're part of the group. Now I don't know if we can be added to
Unknown Speaker 50:33
the text.
Unknown Speaker 50:35
Nice try. Nice try.
Unknown Speaker 50:37
You make this all really easy, lovely. And
Unknown Speaker 50:42
I really appreciate your including me and your group. Oh my God, we love you so much. And when the reboot is ready to go, or when you have more news, would you want to come back on and tell everybody what's going on? Tell in the world, we love
Unknown Speaker 50:56
it. We we love it. Feel free to bring some of the friends. You know, we'll even provide the bottles of Michelob dry, which you all drank a lot of in that stadium, dry because you
Unknown Speaker 51:11
drank. We
Unknown Speaker 51:12
just watched we drink. We were 19 years old. Our brain wasn't fully formed yet, so we were like,
Unknown Speaker 51:22
partly, you know, that's debatable.
Unknown Speaker 51:27
Mind so
Unknown Speaker 51:30
it was such an honor, though. Thank you so much. My pleasure guys. Thank you. Yeah, thank you.
Unknown Speaker 51:41
First of all, let's just, let's just get this out of the way. We're in the friend group. Yeah, the friend group. We're part of the friend group. We might not be on the text with Ellen. Now, it's fine. We're not on the text chain. I just want to say, yet, no, I'm just kidding, yeah, but I just, you know what Mel Harris you are. She was, if she's listening,
Unknown Speaker 52:02
exceeded our expectations. Just so lovely and real. And I wasn't, you know, I know everybody's been wondering how Michelle was gonna handle this. It just felt so normal. She's just so cool and chill and hilarious, almost like a wicked sense of humor, yes, very dry sense of the type that I love. Fourth, right? Very forthright. I loved her. I loved the Intel she gave us. I especially love her saying that the reboot is closer than we might be thinking, and so start manifesting, and that we're going to kind of be I, what I heard is that we're going to be kind of on the PR team before the reboot. I don't know about you guys,
Unknown Speaker 52:45
yeah, and I particularly loved the opportunity to tell her what she meant to me,
Unknown Speaker 52:52
and watching her respond when all of us shared exactly what her character and that show meant to us on a personal level. I'm sure she hears that a lot, but there was something really special about getting to say that to her through the podcast and hearing her response. And yeah, yeah, because it's a big thank you. It was a big thank you to her. It's important to be able to tell your people those things. It's one thing to think it. It's another one to lay it in their laps and give it to them as a gift. Yes.
Unknown Speaker 53:23
So even if we were adults just barely, just barely adults when we watched 30 something, it still really falls into our sweet spot of examining things that we loved while we were growing up. This was the ultimate act of coming of age for us and reaching for the next rung on the ladder of life. Thank you so much to hope. I mean Mel Harris for being with us today, and thank you for showing up and listening. We appreciate you, and we will see you next time. In the meantime, let's raise our glasses for a toast to hope and Michael Gary and Melissa Nancy and Elliot and my favorite, Ellen, courtesy of the cast of Three's Company, two good times, two happy days. 230 something.
Unknown Speaker 54:13
Cheers, everyone by the light of the moon.
Unknown Speaker 54:20
By the light of the moon, the
Unknown Speaker 54:23
information, opinions and comments expressed on the pop culture Preservation Society podcast belongs solely to Carolyn the crushologist and hello Newman, and are in no way representative of our employers or affiliates. And though we truly believe we are always right, there is always a first time the PCPs is written, produced and recorded in Minneapolis, Minnesota, home of the fictional wjm studios and our beloved Mary Richards, Nanu. Nanu, keep on truckin and may the Force be with you.