Talking with Eve Plumb: Happiness Included

Speaker 1 0:00

Hi. I'm Eve plum, and this is the pop culture Preservation Society. Hello World. Is a song that we're singing.

Michelle Newman 0:19

We'll make you happy. Welcome to the pop culture Preservation Society, the podcast for people born in the big wheel generation, which will from today forward, be known as The Brady Bunch generation.

Carolyn Cochrane 0:33

We believe our Gen X childhoods gave us unforgettable songs, stories, characters and images, and if we don't talk about them, they'll disappear, like Marshall will and Holly on a routine expedition.

Kristin Nilsen 0:46

And today, we'll be saving and honoring one of the most beloved characters of the Brady Bunch generation, the one who crashed into her parents anniversary present because she wasn't wearing her glasses in an interview with Eve plum, the actress who spent her childhood playing Jan Brady about her new book called happiness, included Jan Brady and beyond. I'm Carolyn, I'm Kristin,

Michelle Newman 1:09

and I'm Michelle, and we are your pop culture preservationists.

Unknown Speaker 1:14

Here's the story of a lovely lady who was bringing up three very lovely girls, all of them had hair of gold, like their mother, the youngest one.

Kristin Nilsen 1:28

Before we begin, I just want to give our listeners the official PCPs review of happiness included by Eve plum A plus five stars. Not only do we get to know the woman behind one of our generation's most beloved characters, we also get an incredibly funny read chock full of Gen X references that you'll recognize from your own childhood, like ashtrays. Give a hoot. Don't pollute bumper stickers, mixing up witches brew with salt and pepper, trying to keep your underwear from showing in your micro mini dress. Eve plum's life could have been your life if you also start on the most recognizable show of all time. I think this book could be the most universally engaging book to people our age. Made even more so because of the writer's incredible wit. I do believe this is how the grown up Jan Brady would talk if she were a real person. And today we are so honored, so privileged, to welcome the author of happiness included the creator of Jan Brady and a woman who continues to make art and put it out into the world. Eve plum, welcome to the pop culture Preservation Society.

Unknown Speaker 2:35

Thank you for having me.

Michelle Newman 2:36

This is such an honor, and it's just surreal. Is this y'all where we can gush, where we can Fancy a little bit. I just want to say that after reading happiness included, it was so engaging Eve and I feel like, I know you, like, I don't know if I can say that, because, I mean, I'm sure I don't, but it was so chock full of the best, most interesting, juicy, hilarious, behind the scenes stories and fun facts and tidbits that I didn't even know. I wanted to know, but I wanted

Carolyn Cochrane 3:07

them right, right?

Michelle Newman 3:08

And I just appreciate that you put that out there. And so thank you so much for being here, but thank you for giving us happiness included,

Carolyn Cochrane 3:16

yes indeed, happiness included in that book. It's a perfect, perfect title. And like Michelle, I am two people at once. I'm inhabiting my 10 year old self and my 60 year old self. And our listeners know there's nothing better than that to be able to be those two people at once and go, Hey, Carolyn, your 10 year old self. Look who you're talking to. So again, thank you for coming and really for sharing so much in your book and sharing your story. Because I think what a theme that will go throughout this conversation with you is how relatable you are, just so many things in your book that I was like me too, or I wasn't the only one, or even Eve plum or even Jan Brady, like you experienced a lot of the same feelings and emotions and stuff that we did, and our 10 year old selves probably could have never conceived of that. So I appreciate that you wrote it out and that we have the privilege of reading it and knowing like, Oh, I'm I'm kind of like, Eve plum,

Kristin Nilsen 4:17

yeah, it's fun to get to know you. It really is. I swear we're going to give Eve give Eve a chance to talk. Okay, so let's start. Let's start with the title of your book, happiness. Included, most celebrity memoirs, especially those of child stars are bonafide. Tell alls that kind of reveal the dark side of their upbringing or their work in the industry, the dark side of that industry, of show business, there are so many horrible parents. You have done the opposite. Not that you haven't suffered any hardship, but you have taken another approach. Instead of broadcasting your misery, you tell the tale of your life with incredible gratitude. And long before the Brady Bunch began, this happy childhood began. And with your parents, can you share with us a little bit about how they parented you?

Speaker 1 5:05

Obviously surprise kid. My brother and sister were both older than I am when I was born, so so it was a little bit of a surprise for them. And so I was like this, I don't know this, this new thing for them that they got to because they were already adults and they'd already had children. It was just like fun times, I guess, I don't know. So I was the new pet.

Michelle Newman 5:31

No, it was the three of you a lot. I mean, the three of you were, like this little unit. I would say I got the idea that you sort of were a little adult as a child, because you would go out to the fancy steak restaurants with them and dress up, and you would have these incredibly intellectual conversations with your parents that I don't know that a lot of maybe six year old, five year old, six year

Speaker 1 5:54

olds have, I don't know they just included me and everything and didn't see had taught me how to behave in public, and taught me to do this. And it was, it was comfortable and fun, and, yeah, I went traveling with them, and to like you say, just everywhere. Just go everywhere with them, even before I had started acting, would go up and visit my dad up in San Francisco when he was there with the limelighters at the hungry eye and so it the sophistication training started pretty early,

Kristin Nilsen 6:33

and they took such good care of you. This is another thing that is so unlike celebrity memoirs people, especially people who were child stars, they took care of you in such a wonderful way, and were very protective of you, which is not something you hear from a lot of a lot of child stars, yeah,

Speaker 1 6:50

they were very protective. I don't know if they were too overprotective, but it certainly, it certainly served me well. You know, they kept me out of harm. They were but they were always sort of looking for the bump in the road,

Michelle Newman 7:04

which is good, you know. And I think you say, this is a quote directly from your book that I think really sums up how you felt about them and how they made you feel. You say, I was treasured for being me, their little daughter, and I knew it that gives me goosebumps. That's what everybody hopes that. You know, that's all of us are parents as well, and so that's always how we would hope our children feel about us. But that's a lovely legacy that you then wrote that in your book.

Speaker 1 7:32

Also, it wasn't that. I mean, yes, I was certainly pampered and paid attention to, but I was not spoiled. I was not allowed bad behavior. I was I was being trained to be adult, you know, being trained to to be a person in the world. Yes, so that's good. That's good that they didn't spoil me and indulge over indulge me

Kristin Nilsen 7:55

and you appreciate that, instead of, instead of, you know, railing against it as some would. I think no kids

Speaker 1 8:01

need I think I'm sure you would say, I, of course, know everything about children, since I don't have any, but you know, they want to know the rules, they want to know the guardrails, they want to know how to do things. They're looking to you. How do I navigate this?

Kristin Nilsen 8:14

Right? Yeah, right. And that worked for you. That made you feel secure. I think it would

Speaker 1 8:18

make anybody feel secure. Don't you want to know what the deal is?

Carolyn Cochrane 8:22

Yeah, well, that's one of my relatability or points with you, is yes. When you would say stuff like that, I was like, yes, just tell me the rules. I'm going to follow them, and if I follow them, everybody will be happy, no one will be upset, and we'll all just go along our way. Now maybe I've had a little therapy on some of that. But still, I think that you know, knowing early on what's accepted, what how you walk through this world, there's that's a good thing, and I have that's a gift your parents gave you.

Kristin Nilsen 8:51

Yeah, there are a lot of places I'm speaking to your relatability comment, Carolyn, there are lots of parts of your life that are incredibly relatable. We all have difficulties, no matter how blessed our childhoods were, and in this book, we saw how you were able to be so honest about your very relatable parts of your life, while also loving your parents wholeheartedly. On page eight, you tell us in the most endearing and loving way that your mom suffered from depression and alcoholism, just like so many other people, and you do this by telling us about, quote, unquote, Mama's vacation. Can you tell us what that was and how you handled that as a very small child?

Speaker 1 9:31

So funny, yeah, and my sister later took that up. She later called it Mama's vacation in the bathroom, where you just have to separate yourself from a toddler at some point, because they are so difficult that those those transitions are so difficult where they're pushing the boundaries and acting horrible, horribly. So yeah, mom was like, I'm gonna go to the car. You know, she smoked at that time, so she probably smoked some things. Reds, but I knew that she was angry at me. Clearly I was I was acting up, but I knew enough that I would make her more angry if I followed her outside without wearing my shoes and my socks, and I couldn't tie my shoes yet, so I could just still see my little feet sitting on the floor next to the front door, so frustrated, so upset, because, number one, I had upset my mother enough to make her walk away from me. And number two, I couldn't go after her because my shoes were untied and I couldn't have I mean, the frustration levels were just my day.

Carolyn Cochrane 10:39

Yeah, yeah, I can't imagine, but I can't imagine. I mean, I can so kind of that was my, that was my little, my

Speaker 1 10:47

little thing of frustration as probably three or four year

Carolyn Cochrane 10:51

old that I can remember

Kristin Nilsen 10:52

you remember it, that that is so that shows you the impact that it had on you as such a tiny child as you remember that. So your life as a child actor began when your neighbor, Helen, who happened to be an agent for children, suggested to your mom that you would be perfect for commercials. And you nailed that first audition, the very first audition, you nailed it, at which point you became a working actress, and your mom became a momager. That was her life, absolutely managing you. So what was it that Helen saw in you that made her say that, and what was it that got you that first commercial? And how old were you? By the way, was

Speaker 1 11:28

six, and she had recently moved in. So it wasn't like, oh, that we knew Helen from before she was a recent addition to the neighborhood, but it was literally next door, and the wall between our two backyards was very low because the previous neighbor, they had created a gate because they were friendly, and so she had seen me around, and I probably chatted with her, you know, in the front yard or whatever. But I was certainly the the Uber child of the moment. I was blonde, I was blue eyed, I was small, I was also articulate. I could talk from having been grown ups my whole life and wasn't terribly shy at that point. So she was like, you know, hey, here's a cute kid. Yeah, that's what I'm thinking. You know,

Michelle Newman 12:20

I wonder if you're the success you had immediately could be attributed to just spending so much time as almost an only child. I mean, they always say, if you have more than five years between children, they all take on the kind of the qualities of an only child. But I just wonder if the way you were able to nail it so quickly and then. And what we're about to talk about all the roles you had as a very young child, pre Brady Bunch. You almost always were just getting them, getting them, but you knew how to. You knew how to, I don't want to say, work adults, but you knew how to be in a room with adults, right? And you knew how to follow directions and and speak clearly and be sort of a professional at age six or seven.

Speaker 1 13:02

Probably also my dad had written to my brother that I was a good Mimic, that I liked to, you know, they were both hilarious. So I would like to make jokes and do voices even before I started. So I was also used to, not so much performing, but in a way, performing, you know, when you in conversation, entertaining. So so that that's how it became, feeling very natural,

Kristin Nilsen 13:29

you immediately took off, and you had so many commercials that were oh so very 1960s commercials, which, in retrospect, are really quite hilarious. You talk about the glad sandwich bags. Baby, secret, chatty, Cathy Doll, chatty, chatty. Baby, oh, my God, so many dolls. Tell us what you remember about some of those, because that was really how your career started.

Speaker 1 13:52

It was, you know, it's so funny, because I think that you, when you look back at your child or you're like, the people ask you, what was it like? It was like, well, it was like, it was, it was what was happening. It was just my life. So that was just the part of our life where I would, I would go to auditions, and I would get the job. It was difficult. If I didn't ever get a job. That was upsetting, because it seemed to me, it's like, well, this is what happens. I go in, I get the job. I never had a feeling of, I beat somebody out for it. It's just that this is what happens.

Michelle Newman 14:24

This right? Yeah, is mine, because it was a given, yeah.

Carolyn Cochrane 14:27

That probably helped to the confidence and the confidence

Speaker 1 14:31

that my mother was drilling into me. So, you know, I think that worked.

Michelle Newman 14:36

Get the dolls. I just want to know, did they give you the dolls?

Speaker 1 14:38

No, I like I said, I think they gave me the baby secret, but I don't remember having it and loving it. I had a Raggedy Ann doll, I had Barbies, I had troll dolls, and I had this other weird little baby doll that I think was a hand me down for my sister. They also may have given me that the twins in the little seesaw thing, there's a boy and girl twin little area. And dolls, like the Aryan chin, exactly,

Carolyn Cochrane 15:05

yeah, oh

Speaker 1 15:06

gosh, so yeah, but you don't really, because you're usually in a TV commercial at that point, you're working with prototypes. So like, the sketchy thing that I did, it wasn't a real thing. It wasn't the actual toy. It was sort of a mock up of it. It wasn't the

Michelle Newman 15:23

actual toy. Yeah, interesting. Kind of like the food sometimes you eat on shows, actual food, right? Okay, so we want to definitely spend some time talking about pre Brady Bunch, because you had a huge career, pre Jan Brady and lots of popular television shows in the late 60s, the Big Valley, Lassie Lancer Mannix, it takes a thief among others, but in 1968 you had a role on one of our favorites family affair, playing a terminally ill, bedridden classmate of Buffy and Jody's named Eve in the tragic episode called Christmas came a little early, which We know many of our listeners remember, because it is a tear jerker.

Kristin Nilsen 16:05

What is laughing right now

Michelle Newman 16:08

over her mouth? Yeah, she's laughing, magic, bedridden, terminally ill, little, even family affair. We really want you to tell us what you remember about that episode. Set it up for us. And I particularly love in the book where you talk about your mom's reaction to you playing little terminally a little terminally ill, bedridden child. Yeah. See, we were,

Speaker 1 16:32

my mother was very much into astrology and something called Science of mind, which is like Christian Science with aspirin. We certainly went to Godfrey and everything. But it was all about, you know, speak your word and be positive and and be careful what you tell people, because not everybody wishes you well, which is generally true. But had it had a big thread of creating your world out of your you're creating your reality. So you have to be careful what you say and how you act and what you do. So she must have been able to do some kind of a disconnect in her head. Because for me to pretend to be sick, right, for me to have the actual my own name of being a sick little girl who dies at Christmas, oh, God, you just keep piling it on. Just, I mean, she she probably had to, like, do extra affirmations by

Michelle Newman 17:26

the side and take extra aspirin.

Speaker 1 17:28

Yeah, take extra aspirin and just be like, I don't know. I wish I could remember, you know, if she had the at the drive home and go, you know, you're not really sick, and it's just play acting and all of that. You know, she must have done that because she believes so strongly in in what your what your thoughts, your thoughts become your reality. And to some extent, it's true. I think you find what you look for an attitude is everything, and it's it's not always easy to change your attitude, but that right there is almost like a negative comment. So it becomes this weird, yeah, yeah. Thing of how to edit, you can get really crazy with your own thoughts, yeah, because

Carolyn Cochrane 18:04

you would almost have to suspend that when you're acting, because I noticed a lot of your roles that you played, you have experiences that your parents were like, so afraid of in real life, but they got she's kidnapped. She fell down a well, she's, you know, dying and so how interesting that you know you're playing out in real time these things that they're so afraid of truly happening.

Kristin Nilsen 18:29

I want to go back to family affair for just a second, because this is something that fascinates me, and that's a horrible word to use. That's not exactly what I mean, but it's something that's played up. Has got a little place in my brain that it hasn't left. We have referenced on this podcast many times the death of Anissa Jones, who played Buffy of family affair, mostly because when it happened, my mom told me that she had been hit by a car. This was a common theme for my mom, and I think she thought that somehow being hit by a car was less tragic than how Anissa really died, Gen X parenting, right hashtag, Gen X parenting. Anyway, this tragedy, it affected you enough for you to reference it in your life story. So what did her death mean to you at the time?

Speaker 1 19:13

Well, I think unfortunately, it happened at such a remove, like for me, because that was my only interaction with her, was when I worked with her on the show, that it was very much like you have read about the death of a celebrity that you are aware of but haven't seen in a long time, a little bit like whistling past the graveyard. You know that that, that that tragedy hadn't been my tragedy, that I was fortunate enough to not be addicted to drugs. And I don't know how that happened, but it just did. Yeah, so that was it was sad and strange.

Kristin Nilsen 19:55

It left a mark on you. I think it affected a lot of people in that same way. Sad. And strange. How do you incorporate this into your into your reality? Okay, so at just 10 years old, your career is starting to level up. You're doing great in commercials. You're doing lots of guest spots on TV, but now you have been offered a permanent role on a brand new series called The Brady Bunch. And you told your mom at just the tender age of 10 years old, that you had grave misgivings about the Brady Bunch, this new show that you had been cast in. You were so very young, but you knew a lot about the world, and you had experienced so much by being in the adult world of show business already that you felt unsettled by it somehow. What was it that bothered you? And can you tell me what your mom said about that?

Speaker 1 20:42

Yeah, I I was very concerned about the environment, or ecology, as we called it back then, and I was aware of the peace movement, and I was aware of protesting, and the fact that people weren't just living there, but there were protests. So people were, you know, speaking out about things like the environment and the war and and food we eat and so forth. And I saw the Brady Bunch isn't so funny at 10 years old as like, Light Fair and wasn't important. It wasn't, it wasn't the yes that that could change the world. Little did I know. You know my mom, my mom, God bless her. Because, and I think this is another thing that speaks to their parenting, is that she didn't laugh at me, or poo poo what I was saying. She took it seriously. She was like, Well, you know what? Because she'd lived through the Depression, and she said, You know, when times are hard, and, you know, people deserve to have entertainment that makes them feel better. So I think she and her mind, was referencing all those fabulous movies from the 1930s you know, the Fred Astaire, ginger, Rogers stuff, and that immediately made me feel better, and gave me permission to go ahead and do this job that I knew I was going to not have to do, but this was going to be the next step. I had already done several pilots, well, two that didn't go but I just wanted to be prepared if this one

Carolyn Cochrane 22:18

did. Yeah,

Unknown Speaker 22:21

I imagine laugh at me.

Carolyn Cochrane 22:24

Well, yes. And what she said, is that a little foreshadowing? Or what? Because is the Brady Bunch not the show that so many of us go to to provide that comfort when things are hard

Michelle Newman 22:35

still, yes, you can't deny how impactful you know the silly little the silly little show, or whatever was for generations, I mean, to this day, right? And one of the things I think that all of us who grew up with the Brady Bunch craved was that relationship and the camaraderie and companionship of that big family, especially all those siblings and listen, like we've said before, this is such a refreshingly non salacious, non scandalous book. If there were any big riffs or anything scandalous going on, y'all listening, Eve's not gonna tell you about them, because it's not her story to tell, really, and that we respect that so much. I mean, once you get your head around Marsha and Jan taking smoke breaks in season five. It's non scandalous, right? But for the most part, you got along. And yes, you do, you do say, of course, you had little squabbles here and there. I just thought it was so lovely, and that you all are still friends listeners to this day, Eve and her husband, Ken and Chris and Christopher Knight and his wife, Kara. Is it Kara or Kara still have zoom happy hours monthly, and they live on opposite coasts. So how just delightful is that to know that you guys are still friends? We love knowing that

Speaker 1 23:55

we do absolutely. Yeah, it's helpful, because to have that shared history with somebody. It's like somebody that you've grown up with and gone to college with, and you still, you know you have that shared history, and it's the two of you, or the four of you, that know what has been going on all these years.

Michelle Newman 24:13

You can't have that, you can't have that shared history with anyone else except those other five people. You really can't. And while you didn't necessarily have a maternal or a paternal type relationship with Florence or Robert or even Anne B it's clear you did have loving and supportive ones from

Kristin Nilsen 24:29

them, right? The people who are showing up for the salacious content have probably heard this before that there is this common wisdom out there coming mostly from the creators of the show, that Robert Reed was a squeaky wheel that he could be a Debbie Downer. He was the proverbial pain in the ass to the writers and the directors, oftentimes complaining about how the show was presented. And in fact, he didn't even appear in the last episode of the final episode of The Brady Bunch. But across the board, we learned from your book that all of the Brady kids. Have nothing but love for him. Can you tell us more about that and why you chose to include that?

Speaker 1 25:05

Well, it would. I couldn't not include it. I couldn't not talk about him, because it's such a big part of it. But it always seemed to us that even though it made for tension, he was just trying to make it better. He was trying to say, this is, you know, sitcom acting is, nobody expects it to be Shakespeare and him, least of all. But if it's going to be, supposedly, that we're living in his house, let's make it look real as possible. Let's, let's make it make sense a little bit, because there's so much of the time we were being encouraged to move along and hurry up and let's get it done. But you can take five minutes to say it. We people don't stand in a line in their living room, and we do something different here. So it was always, I, always, we always felt that he was just trying to make it better. He wasn't being difficult. To be difficult. You know, he probably could have left a long time ago if he really wanted to. So, yeah,

Kristin Nilsen 26:05

that's the only point. And he

Michelle Newman 26:06

did, yeah, yeah. And you can't deny too, that He gives every episode his all, like just watching it. I remember when I read that as a very old adult, like, so not that long ago, I was very shocked, because I would have never, never known that, because he was, he's, you know, he was Dad, he wasn't. You never got that from him. Okay, so we've said more than once on this podcast that a great icebreaker, if you're at an event, a party, instead of, oh, you know, where are you from, or where do you live? What do you do is to ask anyone age 45 and older, what their favorite Brady Bunch episode is? Truly, truly, all Gen Xers and a lot of boomers have a favorite. And all generations do kind of and if they don't, they're lying, I think. And personally, my favorite has always been, will the real Jan Brady stand up to this day? Jan's earnestness in that wig with the blonde hair all sticking out, it will make me laugh until I ugly like ugly cry. And so I want to ask you, Eve plum, do you have a favorite episode of The Brady Bunch? I always liked

Speaker 1 27:17

the ones where we traveled. You know, the Hawaii episodes, getting to go, getting to go places, getting to go to the Grand Canyon was great. Because for me, it's not necessarily the episode that I watch. It was the episode that I film. So for me, Grand Canyon was fun. For me, Hawaii was as far as watching them, I didn't other than, like first run, I don't really watch them. I would watch it every week it was on. When it was on, I would watch it. We would watch it. My mom and dad and I would watch it.

Michelle Newman 27:46

Oh, that's so cute. Did you laugh? Did you Did you enjoy it? Did you think this is huge?

Speaker 1 27:50

It was hard to watch. It took me a while before I could really watch myself on TV.

Kristin Nilsen 27:54

Yeah, yeah, just from a self conscious point of view, because

Speaker 1 27:58

if you I'm sure when you hear your voice recording, yeah, you hear laid back, oh, it's like, oh, and you see yourself recorded and how it looks. Do I look like that? Do people see me differently than that? Because I don't think I look like that, right? Yes, yeah,

Carolyn Cochrane 28:15

yes, we can relate.

Kristin Nilsen 28:18

My favorite episode is the Davy Jones episode. Everybody remembers the Davy Jones episode where Marsha sneaks into the studio to ask Davey Jones to perform at her prom, and then he turns around and asks her to go to the prom to be his date. But I just found this so interesting. How old

Unknown Speaker 28:35

is she supposed to be?

Kristin Nilsen 28:36

Yeah, yes. He's in his 20s. She's what, 15,

Speaker 1 28:42

yeah, but also, what? In my real life, my father had signed the monkeys to RCA in his job, and so I would go and listen to the monkeys record. And David Jones used to say, well, you know, I'm gonna, I'm gonna marry you when you grow up. So he's saying that to, you know, a 1012, year old kid, you know, but just now we just don't, it's just too creepy now. But it was, it really was. It was fine,

Kristin Nilsen 29:09

yeah, did you? Did you think you were gonna marry Davy Jones?

Speaker 1 29:13

I, you know, sort of like it seemed, it seemed like a possibility. Yeah, at 10 or 12, you don't know how your life is going to be. You have no idea. You know you want to grow up, but there's no idea. There's nothing to draw on. Think about what this might be like,

Carolyn Cochrane 29:29

right? I just love

Kristin Nilsen 29:30

the fact that here, this episode is centered on Marsha, but it's really you Eve plum, who had actual experience with the monkeys. Your father signed them. That's historic. That's like your dad has a place in history there,

Speaker 1 29:44

really does. Yeah, he signed the Jefferson Airplane too. Oh, my God, crazy. Yeah, he was very hip dad.

Carolyn Cochrane 29:51

So yeah, on top, on top of all the other great things about him, Yes, I another thing I loved about him. We didn't, I didn't get to talk about before, but how he. Took out the ads in variety and Hollywood Reporter, yeah, he, he designed them himself. Yeah, I hope you still have those.

Speaker 1 30:10

We did have some of them there. Some of them were saved. They may have sold them at auction.

Carolyn Cochrane 30:16

Yeah, I don't know special,

Speaker 1 30:19

I don't know if, yeah, he did do the designing and do some cut and pasting. And I don't know if, maybe what we had was what was brought that he made, that was brought to the office, or if, okay, did some layout and they gave him the thing that they had made to however they made.

Carolyn Cochrane 30:36

Who knows how they do it now, but

Speaker 1 30:38

yeah, not drag and drop, right? Yeah, there

Carolyn Cochrane 30:43

was a lot of thought that went into it. I thought

Michelle Newman 30:45

it was really special rubber cement. Yeah, you could ball up in your

Carolyn Cochrane 30:48

exact nice after five seasons and 117 episodes, this Brady Bunch ride is coming to an end, and you're going to enter a new chapter of your life, and that chapter actually includes a fun little date that you talk about in your book. You actually go on a date with Christopher Knight. You said, Chris Knight and I tried to go out on a regular date. My younger self would have been so excited, and I still was, but I also knew that we had spent too many years as friends, growing up side by side. Any attempts at making out that evening ended with laughter and resignation that we'd always be sister and brother, even in real life. In actuality, Chris wanted to jump feet first into being a regular high school kid, and so did I, and that leads us right into your probably the part of your story that's the most relatable to me is your high school years. You guys, Eve lived kind of a fun, little wild high school life, but yeah, you have the drama. You talk about losing your virginity, you talk about driving you talk about, I think there's some streaking involved, the bad boyfriend, all the things you're leading, yeah, the homecoming queen, the homecoming queen, ma'am, that's pretty exciting. Yeah, it was a small school. I know you say that, but you don't have to say that. You know you were the homecoming queen and you got to change quickly and all that. I just loved that, because I think all of our readers will be able to identify with some aspect of your high school experience. And I'm so glad for you that you got to have that because you talk when you were younger and doing the Brady Bunch that you didn't have. You wanted to be a bluebird so badly, and you wanted to go to birthday parties, and the only sleepover you kind of attended was the one that we see on the on the Brady Bunch episode. So I'm so glad for you that you got this, you know, little, yeah, little like part of normal life, although typical

Unknown Speaker 32:43

high school experiences,

Michelle Newman 32:45

exactly how much of this Eve was just wanting. And maybe these two things go together, I think maybe they do, but just wanting to live the normal high school life and wanting really desperately to shed the Jan Brady image moving on.

Speaker 1 33:01

And actually, yes, I'm having the freedom pretty much, to do regular things without having to always go to work and and right, you know, be be in a sequestered environment. It didn't last very long, because right before I turned 18, I got a teenage runaway, which was very fortunate because it was so different. It was such a different role. And I think that's why they cast me and why I took it, and I think that helped me make a transition from cute kid to adult actor, yeah,

Carolyn Cochrane 33:34

and I love the way you describe going on set for that movie, because the first four days of filming that you're still 17, so your mom is still has to chaperone you. You still have to be, you know, in class for a certain amount of time, and then all of a sudden, you turn 18, and and I love the way you're so empathetic now, I think, in your reflection to what your mom was experiencing, she went from like 60 miles an hour to zero overnight. And I think you didn't maybe one of the gifts I'm speaking for you, but I would think of this book is getting to revisit some of these times and go, Yeah, mom, really, that had to be really hard. And you recognize that,

Speaker 1 34:17

yeah, yeah. They gave me too much confidence. I was gone. I was

Carolyn Cochrane 34:22

just, yeah. Well, you're like, Yeah,

Unknown Speaker 34:25

okay, great. This is what happens, fine.

Michelle Newman 34:26

But what? What a huge switch too to dawn. And that's something that I said to you earlier, that I had to have been it had to have been in reruns or something when I saw it, because it was 1970 was it six or eight? I'm forgetting six. Yeah, I was seven. I was too young, but definitely it was a big deal movie, so they must have replayed it as like movies of the week. And I know there was a sequel that I don't know, I think I saw, but we don must have replayed several times, and we all recently, we watched it a few years ago. A couple years ago when we did our TV movies episode, and that is a role that was a meaty role. Like, how was that for you? Like, tackling that and preparing for it even,

Speaker 1 35:14

yeah, like I said, the book, my only, my only preparation was having read the happy hooker, just like I don't know that, I was trying to inhabit a role as much as just play the part as best I could. And it was a lot of on the set training, about learning some things, about acting and but somehow it, it didn't intimidate me or frighten me, because, you know, it's what routine you know got all the confidence in the world you're 18. Yeah, fly,

Michelle Newman 35:51

that's right. So, yeah, it's super gritty, though it's it's super gritty the the movie and the role, and so it was such a departure for you, but it's so well done. Is that something? Is that a role that you're really proud of? I mean, you've had so many acting credits and theater credits. Is that one that you go back to, as I'm really proud of, of 18 year old Eve for tackling that and your performance?

Kristin Nilsen 36:12

Absolutely? Yes, yeah. I think it was an important moment for the culture too, because, oh yeah, we're helping us move on as well.

Carolyn Cochrane 36:21

Yes, for a certain generation, it was must see TV when we saw those previews, back when they would do the little teasers, that was something I was not missing. Like heck, that was going to definitely be something to watch. And I will, yeah, I will never forget that. And I think that much like seeing you in that role, I would get just as excited when your little face would appear in a porthole for The Love Boat. So I'm so glad that you loved doing those Love Boat and Fantasy Island episodes as much as I loved seeing you on those that was these ladies laugh at me, my co host, because you have no idea what it was like for me when I would see somebody from somewhere else, be in these other roles. I was giddy. So I'm so glad that you weren't like, oh, another Love Boat. Is that? What it made me? Yes, I love that. Knowing that, well, we're gonna I want to fast forward a little bit. You had those kind of experiences, and then a few years ago, you were on the HGTV show where we renovated the Brady Bunch house and all I mean, such high ratings. And we could go on and on about the fact that we've now visited that home, and we watched the show and all of that. But we can do that at another time, because I want to fast forward to the fact that you had some other HGTV shows that you were on, and all of a sudden you were like, I this like, kind of, I guess goal or something you didn't even know you had inside was unearthed, that you really wanted to design, you wanted to design goods. You wanted to open a gift store. And the name plum goods came into your mind. And we then, we have this amazing entrepreneurial adventure that you're on. And so could you share a little bit about that with us, like, what exactly tell our listeners what plum good it plum goods is, and what it means to you,

Speaker 1 38:14

trying to think of the timeline. But I had been wanting to do plum goods for a while, okay? And at some point, Ken and I decided, well, let's let's do it now. And we did branding exercises, and well, the one of the first things, what that the people that we'd hired to help us with it, said, Okay, Plum goods exists too. And I said, put a smile on your face. So that's where we came up with plum goods, happiness included. And then we ended up doing line of coffees. And now that's happiness, included coffee and so, but it was just this idea of, I don't know if I wanted to have a store, and so at first I thought, I thought, well, you know, you can go to these websites and you can provide, you know, you can buy 5000 mugs right, that are blue, and you can put them on your website, and you can sell those, but you have to store them. And I found out that there's, there's a whole way to put your own designs on products, on mugs and phone cases and a whole line of things. So then we learned how to do that. Yes, done a lot of learning. So, you know, we have the affinity design program and the daisy as the iconic thing. And Ken and I just constantly working with different things we were just working on. We've decided to make a happiness included mug that looks like the cover of the book. And so that took, that took several iterations, you know, because we have to order them,

Carolyn Cochrane 39:44

and then they come, it's like, well,

Speaker 1 39:47

you know, have to do it again. But it's a lot of fun, and it's so great to be able to design something in the morning and order it that same day.

Kristin Nilsen 39:56

That's crazy, yes, so where can I go find plum goods?

Carolyn Cochrane 40:01

On TV, All right,

Kristin Nilsen 40:02

everybody that's going in our show notes.

Michelle Newman 40:04

And there's lots of stuff, but the daisy stuff is really cute and has six petals on it to represent the six Brady kids and Eve, you're also such an animal lover. And so there are dog, there's dog, you know, things, dog things,

Speaker 1 40:22

and the coffee is based on a whole line of chariots. And, you know, running and playing with your dog. And, yeah, yeah, it's very cute.

Michelle Newman 40:31

So we'll make sure that we share that information with you all listeners as well. But it's all really cute. And the daisy super groovy and

Carolyn Cochrane 40:39

really fun. We love that for you.

Kristin Nilsen 40:41

Yeah, we want to let you go really fast. So we're going to, we're going to try and talk fast. Now I want to make sure you can mention your art, and how people can they see your art. You are up. You are a painter. You've had gallery shows before. Yes, is there a place where people can see your art? Ethan.tv Okay, okay, and

Speaker 1 41:01

let's see the and then that will give you the links to the galleries where the paintings are. There's one in Arizona, one in Florida, and the Arizona gallery also has a New York section as well.

Kristin Nilsen 41:14

When did you start painting?

Speaker 1 41:17

Painting? Right as I was getting divorced, because I was, I had left, you know, my horse, and I'd moved, and I didn't have a lot to do, and so I just decided to start painting. And decided that, you know, if I got good enough to put something on the wall, that I didn't care what people thought, I would just keep doing it. I just kept doing it until I got to wear something I liked well enough to put up on the wall. And that's the other thing about painting is that I don't care if you don't

Carolyn Cochrane 41:48

like it. Yes, what a gift.

Speaker 1 41:51

I don't like a lot of paintings I don't like. I cared enough to I was happy enough with it to put it up on the wall, and other people have liked it. I've sold a lot of paintings, so that's good. So it's just really fun to show people something that I've looked at that I find interesting, like with the film noirs, the whole composition of the film noir films, I did a series of Western paintings based on western films as well, and then other still lifes from my travels, just to be able to represent that small moment of my life

Carolyn Cochrane 42:24

for sure. So you're still creating, and just in different ways, you are a creator and a creative person, and the world is better because you're in it. And we're so glad you've been, you know, a part of our lives, and that we've had this opportunity, and we like to do one fun thing

Kristin Nilsen 42:41

with you. You know, we all had childhoods, and we all sort of embraced the same things, and we like to see what it was that our stars embraced. So these are simple questions about your childhood. What was the first album that you had?

Unknown Speaker 42:56

A Singing nun? Oh, my

Carolyn Cochrane 42:58

God, I think my parents had that album you are. Well, we have this term called coos. You're doing. Where like you we remember things we didn't know. We had forgotten that we knew. What was your

Kristin Nilsen 43:10

first concert, concert

Speaker 1 43:12

tall, or David Bowie, yeah. David Bowie,

Carolyn Cochrane 43:17

wow, wow.

Kristin Nilsen 43:19

Do you remember what posters you had on your wall?

Speaker 1 43:21

Well, it depends on the time. I had the David Cassidy. I was David Cassidy, not a Bobby Sherman and the monkeys, and then a lot of David Bowie stuff, even into my first year in college. I want

Michelle Newman 43:35

to ask you one final question. So through this book, you've now shared your life and your stories with the world. What is the one thing you hope people take away from it? What did it

Kristin Nilsen 43:47

mean to you to write it?

Speaker 1 43:49

For me to write it was to finally answer all the questions that people have had in the way that I wanted to to

Michelle Newman 43:59

present your truth right? And your life in your own, on

Kristin Nilsen 44:03

your own terms, yeah, and we thank you for it, because it was a really, it's wonderful to get to know you as a person. Yes, yes.

Carolyn Cochrane 44:11

Thank you so much. Thank you so much for being with us today. As Kristen said earlier, this truly is one of the crowning jewels of our whole resume of this podcast. It's been so special. There would be no podcast without Gen X pop culture and without you and the Brady Bunch. So hearing about your life, really, your entire life, and how it's still evolving. I loved that. That has been a privilege. We are so grateful that you spent the time with us today, and we look forward to spreading the word about happiness, included Jan Brady and beyond. In the

Kristin Nilsen 44:44

meantime, let's raise our glasses for a toast, courtesy of the cast of Threes Company, two good times,

Michelle Newman 44:51

two Happy Days,

Carolyn Cochrane 44:53

two little else on the prairie, cheers and the Brady Bunch.

Michelle Newman 44:57

And thank you. Thank you so much. Thank you. Yes, thank you.

Unknown Speaker 45:00

It was really, really wonderful.

Kristin Nilsen 45:02

The information, opinions and comments expressed on the pop culture Preservation Society podcast belongs solely to Carolyn the crushologist and hello Newman and are in no way representative of our employers or affiliates. And though we truly believe we are always right, there is always a first time the PCPs is written, produced and recorded in Minneapolis, Minnesota, home of the fictional wjm studios and our beloved Mary Richards, Nanu. Nanu, keep on truckin and May the Force Be With You. You.