PCPS Light: The Analog Comeback We’ve Been Waiting For

Carolyn Cochrane 0:00

Welcome back to another PCPs light our episodes that are light on PrEP, but heavy on opinions and most definitely, tangents and usually sparked by something that we saw or we read or we couldn't stop thinking about, and in my case, something that I knew I had to talk to Kristin and Michelle about. And so what's great about these lights is I can just say that's an episode I don't even have to start, you know, feverishly texting you guys about something. I'll save that for the episode. And today's episode, it's all about the idea that this world is finally catching up to Gen X, because analog is definitely having a moment. And that is what we're going to talk about today. I was inspired after reading an essay in Gabrielle Blair's sub stack. Gabrielle Blair is a great writer. She's a designer. She's all the things I will link to this piece in our show notes, but it was titled The analog revival has arrived, and it basically says that, yeah, this isn't just all about nostalgia. There is science, you guys, there is science behind what we've been talking about. I feel like we were a little ahead of the curve. And so one of the things that struck me in Gabrielle's essay was a list of stats that kind of show us that things might be taking a little bit of a turn toward analog, and maybe finding that balance between digital and analog, as we have spoken about so often on this podcast. So just listen to some of these stats us. Vinyl record sales topped $1.04 billion in 2025 the first time since 1983

Kristin Nilsen 1:45

Oh my gosh. That is crazy. And that would have been the last that's right when you started buying cassettes. So you can see where it just like it fell off the cliff in 1983

Carolyn Cochrane 1:54

right? And it's actually the 19th consecutive year of growth for vinyl records. Wow. So this has been gaining some traction, much like, you know, five years ago we started this podcast, kind of because of these discussions. Kodak reports that 35 millimeter film demand doubled between 2021 and 2026

Kristin Nilsen 2:15

that's my kid. That's my kid. Yes,

Carolyn Cochrane 2:18

that is my kid too. Yeah. I mean, so many of these, our kids are ahead of the curve too, because they'll be things, and probably yours too. Michelle will be saying, Yeah, well, my kids been doing that for the last three years. Well, good for our kids. Maybe we need to invest in a film developing company, because they're going to go back in

Kristin Nilsen 2:34

a Photo Hunt

Carolyn Cochrane 2:34

the targets, yeah and yeah. Maybe a photo mat, maybe like a little coffee slash photo mat in the middle of a parking lot with little tables, and you can sit around. Maybe we'll have scrapbook stuff at it, and books, and people can just chat and look at my picture of the bear a turntable.

Michelle Newman 2:52

Okay, we're designing this. Everybody listening this.

Michelle Newman 2:55

You

Michelle Newman 2:55

can't take this idea trademark PCPs.

Carolyn Cochrane 2:57

That's right. And you know what else it's gonna have to have, Michelle, it's gonna have to have needlepoint, because guess what? Yes, needlepoint searches are up 251% year over year, I believe, year over year. Yes,

Kristin Nilsen 3:10

and how much of that is due to, do you guys watch watch? Do you guys watch Instagram? Do you follow the tiny pricks project?

Carolyn Cochrane 3:20

Yes, yes.

Kristin Nilsen 3:21

Okay, so I think this certainly inspired me, and I'm sure that other people are being inspired. And I tell

Carolyn Cochrane 3:26

everybody what that is, Chris.

Kristin Nilsen 3:28

I can't remember what her name is, please excuse me, but you can find her book called Craftivism, and she has an Instagram account called the tiny pricks project, where she posts her her need, not her needlepoint, but her embroidery. Everybody where she's generally embroidering sayings or quotations from people in the news. And this has been hugely inspiring to me. It's cute and it's vintage, and it's retro, and it's it's so Instagram ready. And I think that's inspiring, not just us, but everybody of every age,

Carolyn Cochrane 4:01

yes, yeah, to do that those that craft division book, is that how I know Craftivism,

Kristin Nilsen 4:06

as in activism, Craftivism,

Carolyn Cochrane 4:08

yes, right? Is also really inspiring. It's like you feel like you're killing a bunch of birds with one stone. Forgive that analogy, but for a phrase idiom, I wish there was a better one. But yeah, I love you know, biggest bang for our buck. So that's definitely one of those. And also, in terms of needles and thread sewing pattern searches are up 152% and I even love this visible mending searches 144%

Kristin Nilsen 4:37

this is cool. This is very, very grateful. Yeah. And Liam even brought me his pants one time, and he wanted his pants mended and and he said, and if you want to do the stitches on the outside, that's okay. You don't have to hide them,

Carolyn Cochrane 4:51

right? I just bought because I can fall down the Instagram ad rabbit hole. I haven't even taken it out of the box yet, but it's a little like. Like, weave, a mini little weaving contraption that you put over, like, holes, yeah, and then you stitch. And it looks like a little pattern of, you know, like, of weaving. It's very so it's, yeah, it's adorable. And it, of course, looked really adorable at like, midnight. So yeah, then it arrives from the Ukraine. And I felt like buying something from the Ukraine. I am such a good person. It finally came, but it's still in the box.

Michelle Newman 5:27

Tear holes in your clothes, though. I would be like, well, then I gotta go tear some holes in my clothes.

Carolyn Cochrane 5:35

Well. And on top of all that, I think Michael's the craft store. Kind of saw, ooh, something is on. Is growing here. There's little demand for all this. And they have declared 2026 The Year of Creative living in the analog era. Wow. So they're even kidding.

Michelle Newman 5:52

I love

Michelle Newman 5:52

that.

Michelle Newman 5:52

Yeah,

Carolyn Cochrane 5:53

I know me too. The market size for stationery was 3.4 5 billion in 2025 it's projected to grow to 5.1 point 2,000,000,005.1 2 billion by 2034 a growth rate of 4.8%

Kristin Nilsen 6:11

and that's a high end dead, right? Like that, right? Dead, writing a letter was dead,

Carolyn Cochrane 6:17

exactly. Listen to this hot the high end pen market we all love a good pen is projected to grow from 4.6% to 4.8 through the next five years.

Kristin Nilsen 6:29

And you know,

Carolyn Cochrane 6:29

I mean, I

Kristin Nilsen 6:29

just heard that cursive is coming back in schools.

Carolyn Cochrane 6:32

I'm so glad you said that. Guess who's the latest state is Pennsylvania. On April 11, yes, voted that in there are now 25 states that require it in their curriculum, and all for the reasons that we've kind of one know as teachers and writers, but the brain development. I mean, there's a huge science piece to that. And also, let's just face it, being able to sign legal documents, read and read historical documents like read primary sources. How are you going

Kristin Nilsen 7:02

to

Michelle Newman 7:03

read my, my, my younger daughter, who is about to turn 25 so we're going all the way back now, nine years when she got her driver's license, she panicked, because this was nine years ago. She was like, I don't know really. I mean, she knows how to write her name in person, but she hadn't done it in so long. She's like, I don't have a signature. Like, like, I've signed my name, me, Michelle. I've signed my name the same for decades and decades and decades, right? Yeah. And she's like, I can do it, but that doesn't look good. So she was like, practicing forever.

Kristin Nilsen 7:40

It's not, it's not really

Michelle Newman 7:43

signature, because she in up until then, age 16, she hadn't had to write in cursive or write sign her name in cursive anywhere.

Kristin Nilsen 7:53

And it's really our kids. So the Gen Xers, the Gen Xers children, the Gen Zers, are the ones who didn't get cursive, because it really wasn't out of the schools for that long. 10 to 20 years was it pulled out 15 years ago? Yeah, I don't know our kids who well,

Michelle Newman 8:09

in

Carolyn Cochrane 8:09

2010 it was only like 14 states required it, so it's pre 2010 like when our kids were, well, I mean, it started to pick up after 2010 but just a little bit. So, yeah, totally our kids generation. And, I mean, I taught it in my school. You had to write your papers in cursive. Sometimes I let my kids who had bad cursive write it in print, but it was definitely pen to paper, blue ink. So

Kristin Nilsen 8:36

that's 90s, right?

Carolyn Cochrane 8:38

Yes. And

Kristin Nilsen 8:38

so our kids are in middle school in the, you know, or elementary school and middle school in the in the aughts and the 2010s and that's when I remember, I went to school, a school meeting, and it was, I have to say, it's a male teacher, because there was, I'll tell you why in a minute. So somebody asked about the fact that he wasn't teaching them cursive, and he said, Well, does anyone, let's be honest. Does anybody really write cursive anymore? And all the women's hands went up. And I have to add, like it was all the women too, who are having to do the writing for all of the permission slips and the like the chest. Yes, everything is written by the woman of the household. I'm generalizing. If you're a man and you do that, please excuse me, this is just a generalization, and so I just thought it was interesting that he was just so casual and cavalier about the fact that they didn't need it. Now, like you said, they're discovering that there is a connection between handwriting and what happens with your brain, including reading. So I don't know how many of you know this, but the middle grade reading scores have been plummeting over the last 15 years the exact same amount of time that they've not been requiring cursive, and now they're understanding that writing those letters is a way of helping you understand the letters and how they go together. So. I mean, yeah,

Carolyn Cochrane 10:01

well, of course, again, people, we kind of know these things, yeah. And it's also, you know, there is brain, there are parts of our brain that they are seeing now that are not developing in the same way and rate, or stuff that used to be lighting up a lot more on those, whatever they are called those brain imaging images. So I'm not science people, but there's science that backs up what I think. And yeah. And so yeah, there are parts of our brains, and our kids brains that are not as developed as maybe ours were at that age. Yeah, you know, when we were that age? Yeah,

Michelle Newman 10:34

I remember back when, remember back when we were all in writing group together. But I remember, even, you know, before we even started the podcast, being in writing group, and when we have just free writing time, Carolyn, you always had a notebook out with your pen. I would always bring my laptop, because I could just go faster. And we only had 20 minutes. And in that 20 minutes, I was lucky if I got, you know, five sentences out. And then there's Carolyn, would just be going to town. And so I tried it one time. I brought my notebook and my pen, and one, My hand got crampy, but two, I just couldn't I had so much pressure in the 20 minutes, 20 minutes, and then you have to read what you wrote. And then, you know, there's people reading, you know, four pages of stuff. And I'd be like, I have a paragraph, but, but what I was going to say is, I love that. I love the idea going back to writing your thoughts, and that's why we all keep journals, probably too. But there was another thought I had, and I for you know why? Because I didn't write it down. What it was, it was the letter thing I was going to in talking about our penmanship and our cursive, and we haven't we we've gotten out of writing a lot, even though I do write in journals and I do write by hand many times a day, be it in my planner or my journal or whatever. It's way less than I used to write. So since I've been writing letters to people, I my hand gets so crampy. So basically I think I just go, and I really don't care. I'm like, You know what? If it's okay, if it's a little sloppy, because I have to get all these thoughts out, and once my hand starts really cramping, that tells me I'm done. Then I'm like, okay, that's how I end most of my letters. I'm like, Yeah, okay, hand started to cramp so I'm done. Now we're happy right again next month. Yeah, and

Carolyn Cochrane 12:22

it's the perfect age for us to start to reuse this stuff, because it's getting our hands, is what I'm referring to, because of all the arthritis and all that kind of thing. But that reminded me when you were talking Michelle, Did either of you have like, calluses on your thumb or your fingers?

Kristin Nilsen 12:39

Have it? It's huge, yes, yeah,

Carolyn Cochrane 12:43

well, I would get this big one on my thumb, which probably shows you that I didn't hold my right. That was a whole other thing, right? Remember the teachers coming by and showing you how to hold

Michelle Newman 12:54

the mess? Some people would write like this.

Kristin Nilsen 12:59

Signs 2000 is it really tonight? Yeah, she holds it. You put

Michelle Newman 13:02

it between your first two fingers, almost like a cigarette, and then tip it forward, and you start writing. I can't I always wrote like this, yeah, actually, that's kind of handy. Now that I'm holding

Kristin Nilsen 13:14

it. I think she does that on purpose, because, like I said, She's signing 2000 CDs every day. She has to figure out, there's no way you just go into that holding your pen any old way. You have to figure out how to do it so that you can actually do it. And that must be what she's figured out. Hold it between your index and your your middle finger and your pointer finger. I asked Liam about the film thing when I saw that stat about because I I knew that that photographers were moving toward film again. I didn't realize that younger people were moving toward film as well. I thought it was just Liam, no, he's not the only one. And there's one. There's one camera shop that does all like a one stop shop here in town. It does the developing, it does sales, it does scanning. It does everything that you need for both digital and film cameras. You guys, that place is hopping. It is slammed. I had to pick up something for him. I'm like, Look at all these people at the film shop. It's crazy. So I asked, Liam, like, Why? Why? Because he has a myriad cameras. He has digital ones too, and he likes to use film. And I asked, well, so what is it that attracts you about film? And it's really lining up with, I think, what people are starting to understand? And he said, it makes you think about each shot more, and it's like you have to slow down and consider what you're doing, because you only get a certain number of of exposures. There are only 36 exposures. I'm not going to waste it, so you have to go slower and more considerate. He also said, This surprised me, and it was really instructive to me, he said, and it's more mechanical. I said, What do you mean? More mechanical? He said, well, a digital camera or your phone, it just does everything for you. He. You don't have to think about it. You don't have to adjust, you don't have to turn any knobs, like he's actually liking the manipulation of knobs and levers and triggers. And I

Michelle Newman 15:09

think focusing,

Kristin Nilsen 15:10

yeah, focusing things, yes, focusing the lens and things like that. And I think what gets missed in this conversation is our need to be tactile, like your brain requires your hands to do things in order to think and be and do and develop. And when everything is done on a screen, and the only thing your hands do is type. I mean, pretty soon we're gonna be like amoeba. We're just gonna evolve. Our brains will stop evolving. And so, and especially when you think about different learning styles, you guys have, you know, assess your learning style. Are you a visual learner, an auditory learner, a tactile learner, kinesthetic kinesthetic learner. Think about all of the tactile kinesthetic learners out there who are not learning in the way that suits them best. Are they failing the test? Because it's all done on a keyboard? It's not fair

Carolyn Cochrane 16:00

100% and then some of the stuff I read to your point about your hands doing stuff, I read that that is like built into human beings to have our hands doing things. And so, you know, it's almost like those scary tech billionaires knew that too and made these devices such that we they had to use our hands, because that's like this primary need that we have that fills something in us we don't. I didn't even know that was a thing, but evidently it is. And so when you talked about how Liam's hands were actually engaged in this activity, and some of the activities we mentioned in terms of needle pointing and writing letters and all of that, it's it feels good on some level we might not even be able to articulate because it is built into our systems. Yes, and and these seem to be much healthier ways to do it, some of the activities we're talking about, than just this incessant thing on our devices.

Michelle Newman 17:02

And I just want to interject something on that note is that I think there's space going forward for both, like I feel like, for all of us that are very creative people. Liam being one to say, just by him saying, I want to, you know, he wants to manipulate, like he wants to it's, you said, mechanical. But in my mind, I'm thinking of manipulate, you know, the the focus and the changing the F stops, and that's a very creative thing that was taken away from him, that in the other cameras that he wants for me, and we'll talk about this, I'm sure in a minute, like what we're, what we all do. But like, for me, art and creative therapy is so important in my days, right? So getting back and this, this is backed up by Michael saying it's gonna, you know, it's, it's, it's got its sales are going through the roof. All of us want to get back to and it can be something as easy as, you know, coloring books right now, like adult coloring books booming and all the different markers you can buy for that. So for all of us like that, are creatives. And by creatives, I don't mean we are, like, we have to go sell our stuff. This is just the crap. Well, we are, but we're just the crap. We want to do it for ourselves, to feed our own soul. Let's just say this is a great, exciting time, because of all the different you know, I mean stickers, my God, stickers are everywhere now, and I eat them up because I use I stick them on paper, like in my journal, yeah, I may now reusing

Carolyn Cochrane 18:39

them on stuff, yeah,

Michelle Newman 18:40

on Instagram the other day, because I have so many sticker books for over the past couple years, you guys, and just in my journal, just because this brought me joy, you do a whole page where there's, like, in rainbow order. So I just have, like, there's probably, you know, 200 stickers on this page, but they're red, yellow, you know, orange, they're all or red orange, they're all in the order, so use your stickers. But what I was going to say is, I can see that there's still space for both, right, right, which is really

Kristin Nilsen 19:07

exciting styles, right? It's all about into the one that belongs to you.

Michelle Newman 19:12

I love that. Now it's not either or we're having space for both. And yes, I know that. You know, 10 years ago, you could still do an adult coloring book. It's just not as popular as it is now. Is what we're saying, right? If you're like, Well, you could play the guitar 10 years ago, you could color, you could needlepoint 10 years ago. We know that. It's just that we were all so in tune to our phones and how cool our iPads were. And hey, look, I can do a slot machine on my iPad. You know this kind of stuff. It's people are just now a reason holding space for both,

Carolyn Cochrane 19:45

yeah, and I think that's the we're that bridge again, because we've done it both ways. And so we realized, after the novelty of our iPads or whatever, like, Huh, I'm not maybe getting what I got before, like, I'm noticing the. There's a difference. And to your point, Michelle, I think it's really important to say and to acknowledge that we are not at all saying technology is awful, and, you know, get rid of it, and everything should be analog. I think the key is, how do we use those technological advances to free up more of our time to do these analog activities. So instead of filling that now additional time you have because of technology, with more technology, well, that's, I think, where we have to find that balance too, is technology is great, like a lot of things in life, until it isn't. And to be mindful,

Kristin Nilsen 20:38

yeah, and I wish I could remember where I saw this. I don't know if it was an album. I don't know if it was an article or if somebody told it to me personally, if you said it to me, please call me and let me know. But somebody said, I really how many parents of young children right now are wishing you could get a hold of a first generation iPod? Okay, that's digital generation. That's for a digital native, but it's different, because it allows you to choose and hold the music that you want your child to listen to or the music that your child wants to listen to, either way, it's, it's a it's

Carolyn Cochrane 21:11

and you own it,

Michelle Newman 21:12

and you

Michelle Newman 21:13

own that

Carolyn Cochrane 21:13

music on an iPod.

Kristin Nilsen 21:14

That's right, and you had to buy instead of giving them a subscription to something where they own nothing and they have access to everything, and they can't choose anything, and nothing is satisfying. And so I wish I could remember where I heard this, but I thought that's interesting, because that's not going full on analog at all, but it is showing where the technology stopped meeting our needs and actually made like there's there's diminishing returns on convenience.

Michelle Newman 21:39

Yes, and I do think I read somewhere. Did I read this somewhere? You guys? Or I might be making it up. But if I'm making it up, it sounds really smart, but I think that there's also, and Carolyn, maybe you have a stat for this that flip phones, people are wanting to get rid of their iPhones and their smartphones, and they're going back. A lot of people are going back to flip phones, and a lot of people, I think we read this in that sub stack, are ditching their Apple watches and going back to just their watch, or just a digital watch. I know I kind of want I turn that one to the the only reason I need my Apple Watch is I use it for my health app, and I use it to track all that kind of stuff. But you remember when I had a Fitbit that I wore with my watch. Yeah, like, I also feel like, but what do I do with that information? Nothing, really. And I kind of want, yeah, go back to a fun watch and not have, not have, because if I forget to put my phone on, silence when I'm in Pilates, my my wrist is buzzing, and so that takes me out of that meditative moment, and I'm looking like, what? What did I forget to do? I just think that a lot of people, even our age, yeah, are saying, You know what? This was great, but now it's become a distraction, and I'm going to go exhausting.

Carolyn Cochrane 22:53

I think that was a common thread I read through all of this, is that there is this, at least for me, a feeling like I always need to be checking, and did I check? And then if I see a text, do I have to respond right now? And I feel like, the last 15 years I've been living in this, like, catch up, like, hamster wheel, oh my gosh, I'm behind, I'm behind, I'm behind. And

Michelle Newman 23:16

really, that's

Carolyn Cochrane 23:17

exhausting.

Michelle Newman 23:18

That contributes to that anxiety, so much like, I'm sure there's been studies done, but that's a really good point. Carolyn, this has contributed to all of us feeling like, yeah, like we're on hamster wheels. A really funny stat I did just read is that this is kind of funny and also kind of sad, but hemorrhoids, like, are up young people like you did. Doctors didn't used to see young people getting hemorrhoids, but they're seeing so many hemorrhoids in young people because they sit on the toilet with their phone for so long. So if you don't, if you're done pottying, and you're still just sitting there, the pressure that becomes on well, you know, so people are sitting there for 15 minutes on their phone when they just had to go in and pee. And, yeah, yes,

Carolyn Cochrane 24:08

I just read that yourself, and you lose the sense of time as well. And I was with some friends this last weekend, and something that really struck me, we were trying to decide it was friends from out of town when we were going to get together again and trying to sync our calendars. And someone said, we I only have 52 weeks in a year. I want to be really mindful about how I spend those 52 or weekends. Rather, he said, Only 52 weekends in a year. And it struck me like and let's face it, you guys, we have fewer weekends ahead of us than we have behind us. I mean, let's do I know, but I want it not to be like maudlin about it, but to also recognize, like, let's monitor like, how we're spending our time. If I spend an hour

Kristin Nilsen 24:52

sitting

Carolyn Cochrane 24:52

on the toilet, all I had to do was take a pee. That's an hour again. I'll never get back. And what did I have to show for I even. Not telling you what I have to show for it. You know, I saw Michelle's cute needlepoint, but she would have probably sent me a picture anyway, of it in a test I didn't have

Michelle Newman 25:08

to see it

Carolyn Cochrane 25:10

on Instagram. Being thoughtful,

Michelle Newman 25:12

I keep, I mean, this might be too much information, but everybody has to sit on the toilet at some point. I now keep an actual, I got a Barnes and Noble, just the actual word search book with like, a couple of colored markers. Now listen, I have word searches on my iPad, but the whole idea is not taking electronics into the bathroom with you. So I so go. You guys go. Or you could go to CVS. You could get a sudoku Sudoku book. You could get whatever you want. I personally love word searches. I have since I was about, you know, seven. So it's just like, keep

Kristin Nilsen 25:46

you can even go analog in the bathroom and this, I think all of us do it. Everybody does it. Everybody just, you know that you do. And let's this will be the one thing that will change your mind and will make your bathroom and analog place. They've done studies on how much fecal matter is on telephones every time, yes, yes. It's like the most next

Michelle Newman 26:10

to them and flush,

Kristin Nilsen 26:10

yes,

Carolyn Cochrane 26:11

yeah. And, you know, you're holding it and everything it's like before you wash your hands. Or for some people, like they'll set it down. You know, you might set it down on you

Michelle Newman 26:21

set it down if you pick it back up to go into your Exactly. Yeah, crazy.

Kristin Nilsen 26:27

You know another

Michelle Newman 26:28

thing you could take into the bathroom with you everyone. What's the remind magazine? Because the lack of remind magazine has about six pages of the best puzzles, crosswords, word searches, sudokus, all the great stuff. And you know what? If you use this URL code to order remind magazine.com/pop you can get a whole year of remind magazine for just $12

Kristin Nilsen 26:52

that was not planned, that was no beauty, no that was perfect.

Carolyn Cochrane 26:56

And it's a great

Michelle Newman 26:58

segue

Carolyn Cochrane 26:58

into exactly what I want to talk about, which is the rise again of physical magazines. Yeah, I think I have shared with you guys that grace wanted a actual magazine subscription that would arrive in the mail for Christmas and she got Vogue. And she is not alone. Magazine subscriptions are kind of on the rise. And listen to this, you guys. I'm so excited. I want I'm gonna reach out to this woman and I'm gonna go visit. She's 37 so we're not we're talking, you know, whatever? Jenna, Jen, millennial. She has opened in Portland, Maine, a magazine store, a magazine store. It just has magazines and stationery and cards. Wow, yes. Her name is Stacey Mitchell. She said she was traveling in Europe, and she decided one of the things she was going to do was get a Vogue magazine from every different country that she visited. And she was amazed at how different they were, just kind of by country, and how much more or how readily available they were. And she decided that this was a stream she had, and it's taken a while to kind of get off the ground, but she said it has been amazing. She got this, you know, storefront for really not a whole lot of money. She said it is so great one to have people come in and just like, exhale when they come in, probably Gen Xers and these, she curates these magazines. So I'm not saying this is like, you know, cheesy magazines that you can necessarily get at the newsstand some of those, but these are kind of those artful, like evoke magazines that are pieces of art, really, that you can actually, she talks about the paper and the texture of the paper and the size and the color and all of those things. And she said, so these probably Gen Xers come in and are like, Oh my gosh, this is great. And then she said, recently, a little girl came in and bought her first magazine, and the Stacy The owner said it just gave her this good feeling inside to think this might be the beginning of something like I have helped this little girl realized there is this thing that's not on a screen that she can flip through and engage with. And I thought, oh my gosh, this is amazing. So if you're in Portland Maine, this is where Stacey's store is located. I'm going to put a link to it. Stacey doesn't even know I'm doing this, but I think I want more of these in the world. And she said, there's a coffee shop next door. So it works really well. People will

Michelle Newman 29:23

come

Carolyn Cochrane 29:24

in slowly, peruse these magazines and then go over to the coffee shop. And I thought, yes, Stacey, and she's not old. She's not like us, thinking, Oh,

Michelle Newman 29:32

she's

Kristin Nilsen 29:32

craving it too, like this is, I think the point here is that it's not we Gen Xers who are reviving it, it's the people younger than us who are reviving it because they are figuring out that they're missing something. Yeah, and we knew we were missing something. Well, that's the thing they didn't know. Yeah,

Michelle Newman 29:52

one of my favorite things to do when I just need a break, I just am like, if I'm feeling super anxious, I try to do. Stuff I've had a dentist appointment or something, is I go to my local Barnes and Noble, and I say that only because I don't have another independent bookstore near me. Otherwise I would go. I would love to go to big hill books, if that was my thing. We do have tattered covers, but they're owned by Barnes and Noble now, so it's the same thing, but I have a Barnes and Noble super close to me. I mean, less than I'm probably, like, seven minutes away. And I go and I look at the magazines, and the magazines are incredible. And you can buy remind magazine, by the way, in remind magazine, but you get a much better deal. It's 86% more money if you buy it at Barnes and Noble, then you can get a whole year for I think it's like 6099, for one issue, you can get a whole year for $12 if you use our code. Okay, anyway. But when I was there last time, and they were had boxes open because they were refilling a lot of the magazines and you guys, it just thrilled me so much. There were all wrapped up in their plastic. But it were, they were all highlights magazines. And I was so excited to see that that like, Oh, they're, they're undoing, you know, they're unwrapping the highlights to put out. And I thought, I wonder how many they sell. Like, I wonder if

Michelle Newman 31:15

I

Kristin Nilsen 31:15

wonder that all the time.

Michelle Newman 31:16

Yeah, you know

Carolyn Cochrane 31:17

what? For listeners, if you have grandkids or any young people in your life next holiday or birthday, get them a subscription that will come in the mail to highlights magazine, because I cannot imagine how excited a child would be when they're like if you said to them, Go run the mailbox and get the mail and they see something addressed to them that's going to be hours of fun. Oh my gosh, it's me. We remember that

Michelle Newman 31:45

my daughter was, it was Ranger Rick for my little girl. And we still have a tub of them because they're, they're old, you know, they're and I have one of my old apparently, I subscribed to Sesame Street magazine because I found one and all of my mom's stuff that has, like, my old address on it, and they're so cute, but, yeah, my girls used to get so excited when the Ranger Rick would come in the mail. Yes, and there's

Kristin Nilsen 32:11

a new magazine out that it's sometimes these new magazines are harder to find because these are startups, and they're not necessarily things that you're going to see at the grocery store. This is one for, like, middle school age kids, and it's called Anyway, anyway magazine, and it is very it's very much a throwback to, like, young Miss, where you know how to stretch your allowance, or there's a column for if you have a crush, somebody's gonna answer your questions about if you have a crush. But the thing that's nice about it is that it's kind of unisex. It's not necessarily just like a beauty

Carolyn Cochrane 32:44

tips, and

Michelle Newman 32:45

that's

Kristin Nilsen 32:45

right, it is very like, there's some kid who's showing you skateboard tricks or something like that, and the photography is really great. And I just it felt like such a throwback. And I really want kids to have magazines again. I taught a writing class this weekend, and we had to teach the kids. They were reading worldwide crush, and we had to teach them what a magazine was and why it was important to your crush, because it's all about the posters. We're like, a poster was a thing that you'd pull out of the magazine, you'd put it on your wall, and they were like, really, they had no idea. And this is

Carolyn Cochrane 33:15

remind magazine has posters in it, like, pin up.

Kristin Nilsen 33:18

Oh my God, it

Carolyn Cochrane 33:20

was that girl is Marlo

Michelle Newman 33:22

Thomas, right? Marlo Thomas, a lot of times it's, yeah, it's been David Cassidy before. It's been movie posters. That's like

Kristin Nilsen 33:30

honoring us. It's like tongue in cheek, a little wink, right? It's honoring us, this thing that we had that there's no reason for it to go away. How could anyone argue that it's better to have everything digital, so that you can't put it on your wall.

Carolyn Cochrane 33:43

The issue becomes, as we all know, we're late stage capitalism, it has to do with the pricing. And you know, these print publications, whether it's an actual newspaper or a magazine, it becomes, you know, not cost effective between advertisers saying, I'm going to spend my money online, because that's where people are spending their time to the cost of paper. And you have to pay these. You know, journalists, they work hard. I mean

Kristin Nilsen 34:07

artists and photographers and

Carolyn Cochrane 34:10

graphic designers. I want to add that there is actually one now for Gen Xers, a print publication that's coming out. I wish they had changed the name a little bit, but they have their reasonings. It's called geezer, okay, I know, but it is a big, bold print only magazine made for Gen X, the first generation to grow up on reruns and the last to come of age and analog. It's delivered to your mailbox three times a year, and it goes deep on the issues that define us. And it's an 11 by 15 coffee table magazine, another kind of fun thing. Yeah,

Michelle Newman 34:44

did you say it's like large print?

Carolyn Cochrane 34:46

Oh, I should it. Didn't say

Michelle Newman 34:49

bold. I think I was thinking like large print, super helpful.

Carolyn Cochrane 34:54

That could be why it is size. We might I'm. I'm going to, I think after this episode, I'm actually going to reach out to the geezers, because right here it says the geezer is behind geezer, and it does a little

Michelle Newman 35:07

about page. Oh, yeah, let's definitely do, let's, let's support geezer. Let's, well, we're promoting him pretty hard right now. But I was just thinking I'd like to go order that. No,

Carolyn Cochrane 35:15

yes, I think those are some of the people I'm going to reach out to, because they are. They know that we're on the brink of something. Yeah, Forbes magazine has actually called 2026 the year of analog living. So this is Forbes. So think of who gets Forbes magazine. This isn't just Gen Xers waxing about how life used to be great. This is a magazine that business people, economists, I mean, a lot of people, you know, subscribe to whether it's their newsletter, whatever, but they are recognizing that analog living is the future,

Kristin Nilsen 35:49

and maybe they could make money. I mean, that at the end of the day, that's if somebody can make money from it, then we can start a real movement. And I think we've proven here that people are craving it. They're craving it. They're craving something different, and they're going to start making products to help us out. I wanted to talk about my embroidery a little bit because, yes, this is a this is a new thing for me. I haven't been doing embroidery all my life. I know our moms did big needlepoint and embroidery projects that they put on the wall, but that wasn't me, but it was really the the tiny pricks project on Instagram that inspired me, because she was, she was embroidering these sayings that were really, like, saying exactly what I wanted to say. So then I started perusing around on it wasn't just pretty pictures, right? Like, there's pretty stuff that I was really that was cute and I wanted to do it, but I didn't think that I had the attention or the skill to do it. But when she's just doing words, I'm like, I can do words, and that might actually be healthy for me. And so I tooled around and I bought some I'll show you the very first one I did was, where is it okay? The very first one I did, this is what it says to all the men that I offended in 2024 with my feminism, try not to be so emotional and smile more, because 2025, is going to be way worse, and I have to, I'm going to show it to you guys this. It's not good. I'm not good at this. It's lost of all, it's

Carolyn Cochrane 37:09

great, but it doesn't have to be,

Michelle Newman 37:12

yeah,

Kristin Nilsen 37:12

yeah. The point I realized, was that I was not creating a product. I was doing something with my hand, and I was processing my emotions through what I was doing with my hands. And so I really let go of my perfectionism, which I think a lot of people don't start projects like this because of perfectionism, and they want it to be good and they want it to be pretty, and I realized it didn't have to be I didn't even have to do anything with these things that I created. So then I got another one that says my favorite season is the fall of the patriarchy. Then I realized, and then you can just, you know, say nice things like, here's what says be the good I haven't started, yeah, I'm going

Carolyn Cochrane 37:50

to interrupt you for just a second, because I want everyone to know when Kristen just off handedly in writing group or something, she didn't have any of these things to show and she said something like, yes, I've taken up embroidery. I about fell off my chair. I'm sorry. And Kristen, it's just not the image you portray to the world that Kristin is going to sit down with a needle and thread and just, you know, embroider, yeah. So this is so perfect for her, I can't even begin to tell you. And it's so adorable. First, it is cute, cute in a way, yeah, maybe cute isn't the right word, but it's, it's great, and it's so Kristen.

Kristin Nilsen 38:26

It shows that you that these things can they're not just for one certain kind of person. They can serve you in different ways, especially if you let go of it being perfect. And then I realized, Oh, here's one they bought. Says, bitch take up all the space you need. There's bitch take up all the space you need in my in my feminist rage era. Then I realized that I could make my own if I was just going to do words, not patterns, but just words, I could make up whatever I wanted and just print it out and stitch it. And so now I've started using it. I've started designing mantras and things I need to remind myself of, and then as you stitch it, that becomes your mantra. So I'm working on right now, I'm working on creativity, not productivity. I'm trying to lessen it's not about being productive. It's about the process I have. You have no boss. This is something that the three of us say all the time when we feel pressure to do X, Y and Z, X, Y and Z, and we're like, Wait a minute. We don't have a boss. We can make whatever decision we want. Kristen reminding myself you have no boss. Bird by Bird is something that writers say to each other, like, how do you start this project? Bird by Bird? Yeah, yeah. That comes from Anne Lamott so and there are lots that are like, too naughty to say on the air, I want it one. There's one hanging, not here. It says, in my fuck off era, that one. And so I

Michelle Newman 39:49

love that.

Kristin Nilsen 39:49

And there's one I have just it says, just be, just be, okay. It's not a project I'm telling myself. And how am I telling myself? By stitching it. It's really. Really an effective form of meditation for me.

Carolyn Cochrane 40:02

Well, think about it, yes. And again, the brain and all of so while your hand is doing this thing and you're saying this mantra, there's something going on in your brain, and I want to follow up what you were saying about it doesn't have to be perfect and all of that, because I found a great article in mindful magazine. A great love

Michelle Newman 40:22

that magazine.

Carolyn Cochrane 40:23

Yes, I do too. They do. They have a print version, and then, of course, you know, they have online which, again, it can be both, and sometimes a short, quick article that's digital, that wouldn't necessarily fit somewhere in the print publication, but can be really informative. And so this article was basically about how the how analog living is really important for our brains and for the slowing down, not just because it's fun or whatever the things I mean, there was some real science behind it. And I really loved this piece that they talked about, which is to your point, Kristin, it is that every piece of digital technology has been brilliantly designed, expertly designed to remove friction, to make things faster, smoother, more seamless. You don't have to wait or be patient. You don't have to sit with uncertainty on the surface. And while that sounds wonderful, we are losing out on something, something so basic that this is a meditation teacher who's writing this about sitting in kind of the uncomfortable, in the imperfect, and being okay with that we are so as a society, not willing to do that. And I just thought, just that whole idea of starting and it doesn't have to be perfect, and that in the imperfection is really something super powerful that's beneficial to us. If that makes

Kristin Nilsen 41:46

sense, it has. I cannot under, underestimate, overestimate, I can't under whatever people I can't, yeah. Anyway, the therapy that it has been for me to let go of what it looks like to let go that I'm not doing something like when I tell you I don't know how to do embroidery, you guys, I don't even have the patience to watch a YouTube video on how to do a certain stitch. So there are no fancy stitches. I'm just kind of doing it, whatever, however I make it up, and to let go of the Achieving of the perfectionism. It's hugely therapeutic and quite necessary for me at this moment in my life, it's not just that. It's good for you. Sure, everybody should let go of their perfectionism, but some people have bigger issues than others, and this was a biggie for me. Not everything has to be perfect. You don't have to get an A on everything.

Carolyn Cochrane 42:36

Yes. And here listen to this, what this meditation expert says, when he's talking about what activities you could choose what analog activities might work for you. He said, Pick what your inner critic dismisses. For instance, exactly what you said. Mr. Kristen, he said, I almost didn't go to an abstract art class because a voice in my head said, but you're not an artist. That voice is often a useful clue. The thing it tries to talk you out of that silly, that's frivolous, that's not productive, is frequently the thing your nervous system most needs might drop so and I think that's exactly what you said, yeah. That is exactly what your body and your mind need to hear and reset your whole nervous system.

Kristin Nilsen 43:23

And we did it naturally as children, we did it naturally, and we didn't judge ourselves in the same way. I mean, think of all of the hobbies, the analog hobbies that you had when you were a kid. I did calligraphy, I did stamp collecting, I did latch hooking. I did what else by

Carolyn Cochrane 43:40

numbers?

Kristin Nilsen 43:41

Oh, I did. Here's my graph,

Michelle Newman 43:44

here's my here's

Kristin Nilsen 43:46

what my stick. This was my and I put who I got the stickers from. These are from Tricia Wallstrom. I've got some from Dayton's bookstore. These are from Christie bougie, I mean, and that is, that is a tactile hobby, taking my stickers and putting them in a design in my sticker book.

Michelle Newman 44:06

I still do it. Oh yeah, yeah. For me, my art and creative therapy is is just so necessary in my life, and it wasn't like I always did fun art stuff with my kids when they were little, but I just didn't have the type of time that I have now that I'm an empty nester. But I was just trying to brainstorm all the things that I do. And when I say, I do these I do, like, like, like, needlepoint and needlepoint finishing I do daily. Like, I do that every single night to just kind of put everything in order for myself and I'm but we're different that way, and you can be different. Like, I like a lot of things that are very open ended, like and messy, and I don't have to be perfect, but I also sometimes, just because of my, you guys call it my, my What do you call it?

Michelle Newman 44:52

My

Kristin Nilsen 44:52

trauma, trauma,

Michelle Newman 44:53

my trauma talent is because I grew up with everything very chaotic and disorderly. I sometimes need things like, need. Point, cross stitch, crochet, something that's very, very orderly. But the things I do on a day, on a weekly basis, like junk journal, paper collage, right? My journal, just my journal anymore, is not just a journal. I have stickers in there, and I do different types of lettering, and I do so I have a creative journal, needlepoint, and then I finish all my needlepoint stuff. Cross Stitch, diamond art, watercolor, rock painting, paint by numbers, crochet stickers. These are things I do on a weekly basis. And sometimes Bryant, like, we have a really big kitchen island. And sometimes on like a Sunday, I'll be like, I'm just gonna have an art therapy day. And he's like, great. And he'll come in and he'll be like, you have, like, art therapy add because I have like, five different things out because I can't decide I'm like, I want to do it all I want, or I just want to color. I didn't even put coloring. I have so many of the fun like coloring books and all the different acrylic markers and alcohol markers, and I love it all so much, and I don't know what I would do without it. It's such an important part of my life. Yeah, all of this is ripping paper and just you guys remember when we did that at the Eric Carl Museum? How much fun? Yes, rip paper. You guys just rip paper and glue it, and then I have so many letters, and I cut letters out of magazines, or I cut sayings, or I'll cut, like, I just got this new, oh, I got a new cut and collage book where you it could be like a giant cat, you cut out and then on his back, or like little people, or a little leaning tower of peace, you know, do funny, stupid collages just that make you laugh and make you smile. Nobody's ever gonna see them. I'm probably gonna throw them away, yes, and that's what is so fun, because I will put one of my audio books on and I'll just sit there and just have, you know, an hour of just cutting and glue it. And I need that. I need that right now. And I don't know why, but

Carolyn Cochrane 46:45

I think we do know a little bit why now, as we've, you know, shared a little bit of research on why some of these things fill us in ways that we didn't even understand. And some of it is this, Bill. It's built into us. It's built into

Kristin Nilsen 47:01

us be Yeah.

Michelle Newman 47:02

And maybe it's just, it's just digital fatigue,

Kristin Nilsen 47:07

yeah, yeah, 100% Yeah. And

Michelle Newman 47:10

I do think it's because we all are just fatigued by screens.

Kristin Nilsen 47:15

Yeah, well, and that was, I think it was that second article you sent us, Carolyn, that talked about how your mind races as you engage with screens. You're consuming information at an astronomical rate. Whether it's important information or not, it could be, you know, dog videos. Are you watching golden noodle videos? Yes, I am. Are you consuming headlines? Yes, I am. Are you watching all the commentary on those headlines? Yes, I am. And then your your brain gets it's like a it's like a tornado in your brain, and it can't stop swirling. And so in order to feed it, you keep feeding it. You keep feeding it the headlines and whatnot and and they, in that article you sent, they said doing an analog activity with your hands is the only thing that will slow down the tornado that is in your brain. And so our kids have naturally figured that out. And if you you know, like the moment that you are trying to focus your camera and compose a shot, you have to slow the F down right. And we are in we are in the midst of a mental health crisis with kids and teens. Everybody listening to this, all of us on this screen, everybody has had a child who has struggled with their mental health. And the question is always, why, why? Why? Why? Oh, come on, we know why. We know why. And it could be that they are healing themselves right now by turning to these things that will help them slow down and stop the tornado that is in their brain.

Carolyn Cochrane 48:42

Yes, so well said 100% and in that same article that you talked about, I loved this point that the author made, he said that a phrase that has caught his attention recently is brain wealth. I mean, we talk a lot about brain health, but brain wealth is the idea that mental longevity comes from slow, attentive activities, long form, reading, writing by hand, making something with your hand, so or your hands, we can make our brains wealthier, you guys by doing these things and in turn, helping our mental longevity. Isn't that at our age kind of one of the things we're doing, we're like, Oh, I better play this game. I better do this just by slowing down and being mindful and participating in an activity that requires those skills.

Kristin Nilsen 49:28

Yeah, you're,

Carolyn Cochrane 49:29

you're helping your brain. You don't need to take a drug. It's right at your fingertips. Literally,

Kristin Nilsen 49:34

I mean, that's on the one hand, that's very encouraging. On the other hand, it's, it's also super scary when you think of how we are living so attached to our phones in the bathroom like we don't ever put our phones away. They're always in our pocket constantly, and if our brain wealth is determined by slow, considerate movements, we are screwed.

Carolyn Cochrane 49:55

Yes, we

Michelle Newman 49:56

do

Kristin Nilsen 49:56

something right?

Carolyn Cochrane 49:58

Yes, we don't want to go bang. Corrupt,

Kristin Nilsen 50:00

yeah. And

Carolyn Cochrane 50:00

some people, I think, are maybe past that, but again, yeah, the slowing down and the release of the perfection, I think the three of us can say that's something that haunts us. And I know some of my kids, you know at least one of my children that's on her shoulder all the time, but leaning into that inner critic that says it has to be perfect. You can't do that because you don't know how to you guys, this podcast wouldn't exist if we waited till we knew what we were doing. I mean, you know, granted, it's not necessarily analog, but it doesn't have to be perfect. We don't have a boss all of those things. And you know, all

Kristin Nilsen 50:35

of this is to say is that there's a lot of hope, and a lot of it is coming from our kids. And you guys, they might save us. They might save us. So buy your kid a book, buy them a magazine, buy a magazine point kit, buy them a camera, buy them a CD player, buy them you can make the list anyway. Thank you for listening today. Thank you for spending this time with us. Go sit on the toilet without your phone today. In the meantime, let's raise our glasses for a toast courtesy of the cast of Three's Company, two good times,

Carolyn Cochrane 51:08

two Happy Days, Two Little House on the Prairie.

Kristin Nilsen 51:12

Cheers, cheers,

Carolyn Cochrane 51:13

cheers.