“Who Needs Friends” and That Time Andrew McCarthy Asked Michelle to Prom
Speaker 1 0:00
You know when it's right. You know when you feel it, baby, you hold it, you hear it, you taste it. It's right. Surpassable. Is this irrepressibly you got the right one baby.
Michelle Newman 0:29
Welcome everyone. It's time to pop open another light and refreshing conversation. Let's all do it right? I'm such a rule
Kristin Nilsen 0:39
follower. And she says, everybody is like, Okay,
Michelle Newman 0:41
we all just pretended like we were popping open the can another light and refreshing conversation with a hint of lime that is unscripted, and we hope, unedited and low on calories and possibly even content while we are in between seasons. And you know what, you guys, aren't we so nice? Most podcasts just leave you out in the cold in between seasons. No, no, but not here at the pop culture Preservation Society, we know you need your pop culture fix, and we deliver always,
Kristin Nilsen 1:14
even sometimes in an underwhelming way,
Michelle Newman 1:18
right? That is correct. Okay, so today we're talking about my biggest crush in 1986 No, no, it's not Nick foxhoven, Andrew McCarthy. If you listened to our great, pretty pink episode way back when you all know what that movie meant to me, and still does, especially goofy looking, mumbling, bumbling, not all that nice, if I'm being honest. Blaine, the amount of nipple lightning that library scene gave me was enough to get me through years of not having a boyfriend. Let me tell you,
Kristin Nilsen 1:55
that's sweet. But
Michelle Newman 1:56
I digress. I digress. You guys, last week, much to 1986 Michelle's amazement. I met and talked and got my picture with Andrew McCarthy. But
Kristin Nilsen 2:11
that's right, those are
Kristin Nilsen 2:12
the fire we're
Michelle Newman 2:13
pausing here. Thank you. Thank you so much, because I am pausing here for the adequate response from you guys and our fellow listeners. I'm just gonna pause for a little bit more while the listeners are all screaming.
Kristin Nilsen 2:23
I'm doing more fireworks. Thank you.
Michelle Newman 2:27
Oh yes. Oh yeah, the big ones, okay, like the finale fireworks. Okay, yeah, right. But So besides being an actor and director, Andrew McCarthy is an accomplished and award winning travel writer, some of you might not really know that he's served actually at editor at large for National Geographic Traveler magazine, and he's written for a lot of other travel periodicals, and he was named the travel journalist of the year in 2010 i He has several books. I highly recommend his book, walking with Sam from 2023 it's a memoir about walking the Camino de Santiago with his son Sam, who those dead to me, fans. That was Charlie in dead to me. He walked that in the summer of 2021 and I listened to the audible it's so good because Sam, it's Sam's voice for all of Sam's dialog and parts. So it's both of them, so you actually kind of get that they're having the conversation. It's super, super good. His new book, who needs friends, documents his travel across the United States. It was he drove 10,000 miles and he went to 40 cities to reconnect with old friends and the it really turned into an exploration of male friendship, but that's not what I'm here to talk to today about. Last week, his tour brought him to Denver to tattered cover bookstore, and you better believe I got the tickets the day they went on sale. I took my husband, who thank thankfully supports all past Michelle's crushes. Maybe not Nick foxhoven, but you guys, we were both so happily astonished by how engaging and funny and talkative and captivating and interesting Andrew McCarthy is, and shocked, a little bit shocked, because
Kristin Nilsen 4:18
that sounds always the way he comes off. He
Michelle Newman 4:20
doesn't
Carolyn Cochrane 4:21
kind of interaction with him, you know, via the brat movie. He was, he was going through some stuff, let's just say,
Michelle Newman 4:28
Yeah, I would say so another Yes, of course, we have an episode for that, not, not pretty in pink, but the brat documentary from last summer. And that's a great episode, too. He was a bit, should we say reserved, aloof,
Kristin Nilsen 4:43
I always say dour,
Michelle Newman 4:45
distant, maybe a little distant, yeah, kind of quiet. He kind of went back to that humbly plane, a little bit. But seeing him in person, he was so much fun. He's a storyteller, and that's what he really is proud. Of about all of his books and all of his travel writings. It's not just where to go. He actually answered a question like this. He's very conscious when he's writing of a not it just being and here and here and here and, you know, descriptions. It's weaving in stories and meaning into all of these places. And that's what he did. He talked for a solid hour. They had to cut him off at an hour so that we could get our book signed.
Kristin Nilsen 5:26
Yeah,
Michelle Newman 5:27
and this is the best part of the story. When we sat down, they told us to write our names on the paper slip in the book so he'd see who to sign it for. And I jokingly said to Brian, well, I want him to ask me to prom in my book. But you know, no, he's not gonna have time. It's probably against the rules. They're just gonna be there was, it was packed. Time you
Kristin Nilsen 5:47
go to prom or not time to write one that you should go to prom, not
Michelle Newman 5:51
time to sign my book. I'm like, This is gonna be one of those. You have to write your name in. He's gonna write who it's to, and then it's, move on. Move on. To smile. Take a picture, because it was packed in there. I mean, there was, there was probably 150 people or more in there. But I very quickly saw that he not only ignored the big table and chair to sit and sign at he stood in front of it, and he was greeting everybody, standing up, giving hugs, listening to people. Somebody brought all his books for him to sign. So he's signing all of them. And I was in like three groups back, so I'm just kind of watching all of this. And I was seeing and I was seeing how he was, like a super attentive listener to everybody. And so I write on my paper, Michelle, and then underneath it, I wrote, want to go to prom, because I thought if I asked him to write, feel any better if I asked you to prom, which is what Blaine actually says to Andy in the middle of the street in front of her house, that'd be a little bit too much of an ask. So I'm going to show you guys, if you're watching on YouTube right now, you can see this, but I'm going to show Carolyn and Kristen what I wrote in my Okay, so I get in line, and it's my turn, and I really wasn't that nervous. And I was telling Brian, he kept asking, Are you nervous? Are you nervous? And I was like, I don't think so, because I think having been doing the podcast for fighting heteros, we've met so many celebrities like you all will remember my story of meeting Rob Lowe that I couldn't My heart was beating so hard, I thought you could see it. So I put both hands on my chest because I was so embarrassed, and I had a great question, and all I could do was go, Hi Rob Lowe, and it came out like I couldn't talk. So I walk up, and I will say that my adrenaline was pumping. Obviously, he looked a little short to me, but I have discovered he's apparently five nine, but and I'm five eight, but I thought he looked a little short, but he grabs my book, and I say, Hi, it's so it's such an honor to meet you. But he starts to open his Sharpie, and I want to make sure he knows that I'm not asking him to prom on my paper, because it says, Michelle, want to go to prom. So I say, hi, hi. My name is and you know, you guys know me. I'm probably like, and I was like, Hi, my name is Michelle, but can you also write? Want to go to prom? And you guys, he already has it open, and he's starting to write. And he does this adorable Andrew McCarthy chuckle, and he goes, Oh, Michelle, Oh, you guys,
Kristin Nilsen 8:18
my heart is squeezed a little bit, wow, a little bit.
Michelle Newman 8:21
1986 is six. Michelle's heart stopped, like I died standing up right there. And then it was kind of awkward, because I was like, Haha, and I have, like, video of it, and I'm, like, clasping my hands and kind of doing
Kristin Nilsen 8:35
this weird little dance thing.
Michelle Newman 8:36
And then he goes, and he says he's signing. I just go. It would make 1986 so 1986 Michelle, so happy. So I'm going to show you guys my and he has very terrible handwriting, but it says, Michelle, want to go to prom. That's
Kristin Nilsen 8:51
awesome.
Michelle Newman 8:52
And, oh my god. And you guys, that was about it. I did say. I did tell him that the that I loved walking with Sam, and the audible was so you know, the odd. And the audio book was so incredible how it had his son's voice in it. It was kind of funny when he was talking to us, he was talking about writing that book and about the the walk on the the the
Carolyn Cochrane 9:17
El Camino,
Michelle Newman 9:19
thank you, and the walk on the El Camino, and his phone started ringing on the little podium, and he looked down and he's like, Oh, wouldn't you know it? That's Sam calling me right now. It's like, he knew that's
Kristin Nilsen 9:28
so human,
Michelle Newman 9:29
and he literally just hit it off, like he's like, I can talk to him later. But then, of course, much like with Rob Lowe, I leave, and now my adrenaline, I can start to feel it, and the bookstore lady was taking pictures. Mine are not that good, whatever. It's fine. But of course, then I look back, and there comes Brian, cool as a cucumber, one hand in his pocket, I can overhear they're talking about writing. Gives him a shake, a little bro pat on the on the shoulder. And I'm like, what? So Brian gets his picture, and then all of a sudden I think, oh. I want one with both of us with him. So I say, Oh, is there time could we get, you know, because there's still a line of, like, 100 I don't know, 80 people behind us. And I was like, to the bookstore lady, oh, there's probably not time for us to get one of both of us, right? And she's about to hand my phone or hand the phone back. And Andrew McCarthy's like, no, no, no, come on, let's do it. Let's do it. So the best picture we actually have, and I'll put this in the Weekly Reader. No, we're not doing weekly readers doing that. And I'll share this on social media or on our Patreon, which should I just share it with? Do you think Patreon page? I think Patreon.
Kristin Nilsen 10:30
Patreon would be great. Yes. So just talk about Yes.
Michelle Newman 10:33
And I'm going to share all of this stuff, the pictures, the pictures, the the way he signed my book. I'll put it in on our Patreon page this week, so all of our Patreon supporters can kind of see that, but that's the picture that came out. Great. But anyway, that was it, and that's my story. And I got to meet Blaine. And what's funny is, I have a pretty in pink movie poster on the wall in my office, my childhood museum. And when I got home, I looked at it and I was like, he doesn't look anything like that. Brian's like, neither do you like you. Yes, really like, did you expect that? I was like, no, no, no. And the funny thing is, is I am not. I think I've told you guys before, you know that probably year and a half that I was just infatuated with Andrew McCarthy, which kind of started, I think, with pretty in pink, and probably lasted about a year. It wasn't as much that he was super cute. He's part of this Brat Pack. But for 1985 86 ish into probably the beginning of 87 he was what I felt was attainable for me, like Rob Lowe. Of course, I loved Rob Lowe, but I was like, He's way too pretty and he's way too cool for me to even even like crush on like I needed it to be Andrew McCarthy. And there was something about that, that library scene in pretty, in pink, that just all I made me all a flutter. And I will say, even throughout the years, I've never really looked at Andrew McCarthy like, Oh my God, he's so hot. I have such a crush on it was like, the whole, I don't know, the whole package. And so I was
Kristin Nilsen 12:12
just
Michelle Newman 12:13
Yes, and I was just super, super happy to hear how funny he was and how, what a great storyteller and engaging. And made me think, you know what? I think we could, we could and should see if he wants to come talk to us one day. I thought
Kristin Nilsen 12:29
you were
Kristin Nilsen 12:29
gonna say, Maybe we should end up together.
Michelle Newman 12:31
Wait, I lost you. What did you say? I
Kristin Nilsen 12:35
thought you were gonna say, Maybe we should end up together.
Michelle Newman 12:38
My god, that's so funny. No, in fact,
Kristin Nilsen 12:41
there's still time. No, it was never, I don't know. It was just, it was just he was such an important part of, like, a year of my life, and that movie, I think it's more that just that movie, to me, is such an important part of my high school life that it was really cool to have that experience just taking a look at him as your crush and trying to figure out if you were in love with Blaine or if you were in love with Andrew McCarthy, and what that says, Because you talked about, you know, how, how that made you feel like such a normal person in the midst of not having a boyfriend, I think that was the Case for so many people, right? And he was one of the cool kids, and he was adorable, but he wasn't perfection, like Rob Lowe, like soda pop in the outsiders, or any of those movies. He had that vulnerability, and he had, he had, I think this is something that men and the media misses is that women like a little bit of vulnerability. Yeah, you can't be perfect. You can't be perfect. It's too much. It's too much, and it's not real.
Michelle Newman 13:51
And like I said in our pretty and pink episode, where we do detail and we bring receipts on times where Blaine's not that nice, too handy. And like I say in that episode, I did not really get that in 1986 87 you know, probably the first, the next two decades that I was rewatching that movie. I did, like I did, love Blaine, except for, you know, always thought the ending, you know, the wig. The wig was bad. The wig is really bad, really, really bad. But, but it wasn't until I was a grown ass woman that I realized there's times when he's not so nice. He kind of redeems himself by the end. But yeah, so is was it Andrew McCarthy, or was it Blaine? I think it was probably both, but probably a little bit more Blaine.
Kristin Nilsen 14:36
It's driven
Kristin Nilsen 14:37
by
Kristin Nilsen 14:37
Blaine. Yeah,
Michelle Newman 14:38
I will say I was very happy at this book signing that everybody there. And again, I'm not going to know how many people were there. I'm bad at estimating sizes of crowds, but yeah, I don't know it was big, but everybody understood the assignment. He did so many questions, took so many questions, and nobody asked him about Brat Pack or Pretty in Pink or anything like that. And. Was really happy about that. He referenced it once or twice. There was many men in the audience, but he definitely referenced, I'm sure most of you are here because of those movies I did in the 80s or something like that. But nobody did until talking. I stand until I walk up in 1986 my show was like, Would you please sign my book? Yeah, and it's a book about male friendship. It's not like his the book he has called brat which I also have signed by him, but I ordered it signed so it just has his signature. Yeah, I go up in the book about male friendship, traveling across America to reconnect with his friends. I'm like, Could you sign up? What a prom
Kristin Nilsen 15:34
you actually instructed not to talk about the Brat Pack or those movies
Kristin Nilsen 15:38
or
Kristin Nilsen 15:38
people were just knowing from you know, people who would show up or get a ticket for an event like that, they they're watching on social media, they're listening to his interviews, and so maybe they're intuiting that. That's not why we're here. He doesn't want to talk about Pretty in Pink. He wants to talk about his grown up work. Do you think
Michelle Newman 15:55
I do? I think everybody was just being really respectful of what he's done with his most of his career. I mean, he's still acting, obviously, not as much as he was. But another thing that was interesting is, I would say the demographic I'm gonna I'm gonna go out on a limb and say I think the average age was probably my age average. So there were plenty of people older, like in their late 60s, and plenty of people younger. So it wasn't like it was all Gen Xers. There was a lot of older couples there, which, in my mind, I said to Brian. I was like, Do you think a lot of these people just are, like, hey on Friday night, let's see if anyone's signing books at tattered cover. You know, I don't
Carolyn Cochrane 16:38
know. Speak up for Andrew. I'm gonna say that those people are retired. They travel, and they've read his travel pieces.
Kristin Nilsen 16:45
Yeah, they could be fans of him
Michelle Newman 16:47
as a travel writer,
Carolyn Cochrane 16:48
for for his writing, because I think he is a superb writer. And I think too, the reason he might have been so energetic and engaging and all of that is that really what he loves doing, and he's so good at it, so to speak about, you know, those topics, and be in front of you all as a writer, and not necessarily as an actor in, you know, John Hughes movies or whatever, I think that's pretty powerful. Not to mention, I have not finished the book, but I have listened to some podcasts that he has been on, and one very great episode. We're gonna plug a friend of ours, but now, yeah, she's our friend. But he was recently done an episode of Dear Nina. And Nina badzin is a good friend of
Michelle Newman 17:35
ours. It sounds like a wash
Kristin Nilsen 17:37
hail you guys this and it's and I have a tile roof. Yeah, I was we could. Okay, listeners just know if it sounds like my house is blowing away, it is. So we're just gonna
Michelle Newman 17:48
keep on Be careful. I saw the severe weather that's coming to Minneapolis today. It's no joke.
Kristin Nilsen 17:54
It is no joke. Yeah, and I'm watching it out fine, because at first I thought it was Carolyn's laptop. No, her fan is going and then I'm like, No, it's above my head well,
Michelle Newman 18:03
and my husband's doing laundry. So I was like,
Kristin Nilsen 18:05
Lord, you guys
Kristin Nilsen 18:07
in
Michelle Newman 18:08
your ears, Miss Kristen, Oh, I hear it loudly. Well, you're I don't hear it at all. Oh yeah, no, it's loud. It's
Kristin Nilsen 18:19
mute myself until, until I want to speak. Does
Michelle Newman 18:26
that take your track out when you're not talking?
Kristin Nilsen 18:28
That's
Carolyn Cochrane 18:28
yeah, I can do that. And like you did last time. You know what, listeners, this is real stuff, and this is a CPS light
Michelle Newman 18:36
hail.
Carolyn Cochrane 18:36
Remember it's light on editing as well. And you're if Kristin gets, like, whisked away in a tornado, you will have been
Kristin Nilsen 18:45
you'll want to
Michelle Newman 18:46
join Patreon so you can see that. Wait. I'm also a little bit concerned, because I think you're in your attic. You should be in your basement.
Kristin Nilsen 18:53
I'm gonna, I'm gonna, well, that's for tornadoes. Hold on, look out the window. I'll tell you if I see a tornado,
Michelle Newman 19:00
Oh, no.
Carolyn Cochrane 19:02
Well, gosh, Maggie is at her first dress fitting right now in St Paul. So, yeah, I hope she doesn't do anything she with her wedding dress. I guess it stays at the woman's house now so she won't have to worry about transporting it.
Kristin Nilsen 19:18
Yep, that's hail. Yeah, that's it's it looks to be like two peas. Like each one is two peas. I mean, who knows? I'm way up in the attic, so it's hard to tell, but it's not like golf ball or anything like that.
Carolyn Cochrane 19:32
Okay,
Michelle Newman 19:32
okay. Well, stay safe. Okay. So
Kristin Nilsen 19:34
thank
Kristin Nilsen 19:34
you.
Michelle Newman 19:35
Yeah. So our friend Nina has a great episode with with Andrew, and we'll link it in the show notes, right? Yeah, and I think some
Carolyn Cochrane 19:43
informative it's such a
Kristin Nilsen 19:45
good topic
Carolyn Cochrane 19:46
too. So I wouldn't be surprised if people in the audience, when you were at tattered cover, were there because they're interested in male friendship, or friendship, just the topic in general, because it is a really interesting. Conversation that Andrew and Nina had, and Nina is so just up on all the things about friendship and connections. Yes, an in depth conversation, and back it up with research. Oh, my God, sorry.
Michelle Newman 20:15
Okay, that's all, let's let's all cover
Kristin Nilsen 20:19
Kristin right now.
Carolyn Cochrane 20:21
Should I look at your radar?
Kristin Nilsen 20:24
Yeah, I'm not good at looking at the radar. Let's just
Kristin Nilsen 20:28
let me look
Kristin Nilsen 20:28
special weather statement. These conditions
Carolyn Cochrane 20:31
you're in your attic, recording a podcast. Immediately go. Get out of it. Go to the basement.
Kristin Nilsen 20:41
Rain stopping briefly. Rain is expected to stop in 10 minutes and then start again six minutes later, is what my radar Yeah, it's gonna be brief. Well, as long as it does keep disrupt like me. Michelle,
Michelle Newman 20:59
yes, yes, okay,
Kristin Nilsen 20:59
yeah, all right.
Michelle Newman 21:00
I mean, weather is weird today, because you guys, we've had in Denver, we've had snow, measurable snow, twice all winter. And by measurable, I mean, it was like five inches, but then it was completely melted the next day. And the past, I would say, two months, it's been in the high 70s. So all of our flowers have come up. All the perennials, all the trees are bloomed. Our Peonies are blooming, whatever. Today, it's a hard freeze, and it has been snowing for the past three hours and but this is a Friday, listeners, but by Sunday, it's 75 and Monday, 78 so
Kristin Nilsen 21:37
here, a couple days ago, it was getting three yesterday, and today it's going to be in the 30s.
Michelle Newman 21:43
So I've covered all all our perennials, all my Peonies are covered in sheets right now. One thing I would like to say is that like they did under the people in the audience asking questions, understood the assignment, asking about the book and his travels and his experience. But he's such a great storyteller, he and that's what the book is like too. It's, it's, he's putting the humanity into this. What turned into this, I think it was like a three or three week trip, six week trip, I'm forgetting now, but it was 40 cities. There's a map in the first cover the book that shows the zigzag of everywhere he went, because he doesn't like to drive. He doesn't like to drive on freeways, highways, so he takes the road less traveled always. So he never has a reservation. He always just finds a motel. He finds diners. And then he started going up and talking to people like these old timers in West Texas, who he could tell meet at this one diner every morning. And they have for years and years. Talks about pulling up to this old motel. You know, he's sitting outside. He said, Only once did he leave, because he was like, this is I'm not gonna, I'm not gonna stay here. But he said, you know, this big burly guy fixing his Harley outside, and he's sitting there next to him, got his feet up on the, you know, the the other chair, and they're having a conversation. They start talking about friendship. And somebody did ask him, do any of these people know? Did any of these people know who you were? And I was kind of wondering that too, and I thought it was interesting. He said a few. But he said, You know, when you see me out of context, not a lot of people recognize me. He said, If I'm walking down Hollywood Boulevard, sure, because people maybe expect, or they're always on the lookout to see is that a star. But he said, If I'm walking in, you know, Abilene, Texas, or, you know, someplace in the Mississippi Delta, people don't know. And he said, If they ask, if they ask specifically, are you that guy from the movies, or his name, he says yes, but if they say you look familiar, he always just says, I have a familiar face. Isn't that funny? He's really humble, yeah,
Kristin Nilsen 23:49
yeah. And it gives us stories like that that really gives us an insight, like a peek into his world, like what his what it's like to be Andrew McCarthy, what it's like to have a life. Because, you know, he he has a home and a family and kids, and he does school drop off, right? He's done all the things that we do, too, and it's sort of like a stars. They're just like us, but they're not like us, even if they were stars a long time ago or whatever. They have to do things differently. And this shows us how he does it. And everyone also has a different degree of fame. And this shows us what his degree of fame is, that some people on Hollywood Boulevard know exactly who he is, but in a diner in West Texas, he just has a familiar face. I find that fascinating. Yeah. I also want to go back to Nina's podcast, because it was so good again, understanding the assignment. They talked only about the book. They didn't talk about his life as a as a teenager, essentially a new adult in the 80s that was not part of the conversation, and that kind of busted things open for me, because when his book was when people were talking about it, we were like, Oh, we are in like, Flynn. We are going to get an interview with him so easily because we have his target demographic any. Buddy who was a fan of Andrew McCarthy, is listening to us right now, and we can, we can tell people about his book. Of course, he's going to want to come on this podcast. And then after listening to Nina's conversation, I realized, no, he's not going to want to come on this podcast because he doesn't want to talk about prom. No, understandably. I totally get it, and we had this great idea where we wanted to have a conversation with him, not manufactured, but because we are truly interested in discussing the friendship dynamics in pretty, in pink, between Blaine and Steph in particular. I want to pull that apart. I think that's fascinating. Now, I know he doesn't want to talk about that. That's not a part of his life right now, he's moved far beyond that, and so if we were to send him that pitch, that would probably be a no. Now I think we we can still have that conversation, if we want to, right, we can. We can still tell people about his book, and we can still address Steph and Blaine as a role in it. It's just not what he wants to do, because he doesn't live in that place anymore.
Michelle Newman 26:01
Well, it's also, I mean, Stefan Blaine, for sure. But think about st elmo's fire.
Kristin Nilsen 26:06
Oh my.
Michelle Newman 26:06
Think about his character in St elmo's Fire. He's just kind of always smoking. They all think he's gay. He has the crush on, why am I forgetting her name right now? Thank you. Ally Sheedy. She has the crush on Ally Sheedy Demi Moore's character, who is so messed up, just clings to him that friendship. So the friendships in Saint almost fire, for sure. But even think about the male friendships in that are really interesting. Especially, I've always found his character especially interesting. Go all the way back to class with Rob Lowe, which was on his first one. So, you know, you go to think about that one with the, you know, that's Jacqueline Bessette, right? The mother,
Kristin Nilsen 26:47
yep,
Michelle Newman 26:48
and that. And so, you know, their their roommate, or their roommates, and, like, good friends in college. And then, you know,
Kristin Nilsen 26:59
you know,
Michelle Newman 26:59
I'm forgetting which one has
Kristin Nilsen 27:01
that? No, I can't remember. I can't remember one of the things I want, we'll
Michelle Newman 27:05
just say that going back to class, yeah,
Carolyn Cochrane 27:07
one of the things that he talks about in depth on Nina's podcast, that I wanted to address was how, really the whole reason this book even became a book was because he wanted to reconnect with his like, basically childhood high school friends, and it became, like a goal for him to do that, and then in the course of trying to do that, that was almost before he had the idea for a book. Then as he tried to meet up with them and reconnect, that kind of opened up this idea of writing this book, because he decided, I'm going to go find these people, and I'm going to purposely reconnect, and I know that I've shared with you guys how important that has been for me. And one of the reasons I decided that if I'm going to move back out to the East Coast, that's going to be a goal that I have, and I can't speak enough to the the what do I want to say the gift that that is. And so if you're out there and there's a friend you had from high school or earlier or college, and you've just, you know, fallen out of touch, or maybe you're Facebook friends, and that's the extent of it, the physical act of reconnecting and seeing each other in real life is pretty powerful. And so he addresses that and talks about why that meant so much to him, and I encourage all of our listeners, if you have that opportunity to grab hold of it, because I can
Kristin Nilsen 28:28
especially, especially now, like we are in our 50s, we are in our late 50s. We are coming to our into our 60s. This is an even a more important time for us to reconnect with those people, because that you have to remove all artifice. And I did. I did a welcome at my college reunion this summer, they asked me to welcome people, and it was just so lovely to look around the room and see that we're all in the same place, like we all have neck wrinkles, all of us do. And I thought, isn't that lovely? Because it's very rare that you're in a room with all people your own age. It's very rare that you're with somebody who's exactly your same age, and you can look at each other and you have no expectations for them to be anything other. But what age they are, they have to have neck wrinkles. And if the person across from you has neck wrinkles, that means that my neck wrinkles are normal, and there's nothing I don't have to fix my neck wrinkles. Whereas, when you meet up with people, when you have estrogen, it's different, because estrogen makes all of the difference. I think It cracks me up when people are like, Oh, she looks great for 40 I'm like, whatever, she has estrogen, right? When you are still in an estrogen mode, you can still worry about your appearance and whether you're thin enough, or whether your hair is luscious enough, or whatever you you're still wondering how you look for fill in the age. She looks great for 35 she looks great for 40 she looks great for 45 i. When you get past estrogen stage, that all goes away. It does not matter, because you can't beat the neck wrinkles without paying, like way too much money, and involves knives and things like that. And it's not worth it. It's just not worth it. But also, I want to piggyback on that. When you talked about the reason that he went on this trip was to reconnect with those childhood friends. The thing that really hooked me in that story is that the reason he wanted to connect with his friends was because his son said, Yeah, Dad, you don't really have any friends, do you? And he's like, What? No, I have, I have friends. He's like, Yeah, who, who, dad, yeah, and that. So there's this. It's, although it's a stereotype, there is also some truth to it that oftentimes men are not as good at keeping up with their friendships as women are, particularly if we move to different locations, women are more communicative, and we check in with each other, and we used to talk on the phone. People don't really talk on the phone anymore, but, you know, and Carolyn's writing letters, right? Men, just they they might be able to see each other again and pick up, right up where they left behind. What am I saying? Right up, pick up, right up where they left off. Yeah, it's the hail where they left off there. Thank you. Thank you. But they're the keeping up is not very good. And he says, kid got under his skin.
Michelle Newman 31:22
Yeah, he tells a lot of funny stories that are kind of stereotypical but true, where he does talk a lot about he's a solitary person. He likes being by himself. He likes his own company. He's he'd almost prefer to hang out by himself, to be honest. But he says, you know, men, they need something to do. They don't just hang out. He's like, women can just go and drink coffee together and for like, three hours. But he said, Men, you got to play golf, or you got to be watching a game, or you got to be so he says, like, his one friend, you know, they're watching the baseball game, and every once in a while, you know, they'd be like, Ah, no, that was a ball. So who's the back? And then be like, Oh, he wasn't out. You still taking that Med, you know, whatever. But he also says, you know, he doesn't really like golf So, but he did one time. He goes and he plays golf and, you know, you're there for like, three and a half, four hours, comes back home and his wife is like, you know, how's Kevin? I'm just making this part up, guys, this is, this is, this is how I remember the story, you know, like, How's Kevin? He's like, That's good. He's fine. And his wife says, Oh my gosh, how's Nancy, that's, let's say that's Kevin's wife, how's Nancy? And Andrew's like, Oh, I'm sure she's, she's good, she's fine. And she made it through this last round of chemo, okay? And, you know, Andrew would be like, I guess, I don't know. Well, didn't he say no? Did you ask how she's doing? You know, she's had cancer for like, the past two years, and she's no, we didn't talk about that. Why don't you talk about, you talk about the weather, you talk about the scores of the games. But that is so true that, you know, sometimes Brian will come home, or he'll, you know, the past two years, he goes on a ski trip with his best friend from college, who was one of, you know, one of my best friends in college as well, and he's, happens to be married to my college roommate. So it's all very kind of college ancestral. And I say to him all the time, they'll come back from three days, and I will ask him very specific questions about their kids, who we know? Who are you know, we've known since they were born, blah, blah, blah. And he's like, I don't know what's Luke thinking what's Luke thinking about majoring in? Yes, Luke thinking about majoring in.
Carolyn Cochrane 33:44
So, yeah, I don't know. You know, I want to address that in that. I think he talks about it in the podcast, and we've, I think Kristen, you mentioned it before, but just, you know, men being vulnerable, or males, I mean, even boys to some extent, which, okay, I'm gonna take a little off ramp here, but I think this was so cute. And when does this change? I was walking behind these two boys who are probably in second grade two days ago, and they were just on this path a little bit in front of me, and they're just kind of going along. And then one grabs the other one's hand, so they're like holding hands, and he said, Let's just walk around and look at nature, okay? And then they just got like, trope, you know, go along and they then they dropped hands, but they're just having a great time. And it just struck me, I mean, I wanted to run up and just go, this is so sweet. So at some point you're not kind of grabbing your best friend's hand and saying, Let's go for a walk and look at nature like when, I'd be interested to know when that happens. And also, this is kind of an aside, but kind of not listeners, if you follow us on threads, particularly, I had reposted recently a segment of an episode of Anderson Cooper's podcast and my boyfriend Holly. Pass whatever Dax Shepard was on, and they was talking about just when his father was dying, and he had a very his father had left when he was young. And so it was a really cathartic story for him to share, but he cried while he was sharing it. And so I shared this clip on threads and just said, this is what real men look like, or something. You guys, we got 14,000 likes on me, reposting that, yes, and comments as well. So it really hit something, and not just women. I mean, it hit a lot of nerves, I guess, on people, with people. And so it's like, this thing we know, and when we see it exhibited by somebody that's brave enough to do that, everybody recognizes, like, Yes, this is what we want. This is what we need. But yet, you know, we're
Kristin Nilsen 35:54
not
Kristin Nilsen 35:54
out of them. It's really it makes it so, so difficult, and even even in our own relationships, like, I know, everybody has done this. Everyone has done this where you're you're like, poking your your spouse, your partner, to go further, to get deeper, to, like, stop with the quipping. We're not quipping right now. We're not making jokes right now. Keep going. Say something real. Please. Say something real. There is this wall that goes up that might, that might keep men from being friends in the way that women are and women are friends in a way that is life giving. I had a friend of mine recently had had to break to her her adult daughter, she was, she was complaining about the behavior of some man, a partner, somebody's partner, who is just, again, that wall went up, and so my friend broke the news to her. She's like, I need to tell you this right now, you will not be able to count on your husband to support you in that way. You need to lean on your female friends. That's what your female friends are for because they have those skills to be able to support you when the men put the wall up, that gets very, very real, and it speaks to the importance of this book that he's written, where, at the very least, no matter how far he was able or not able to get, it's just bringing up the the topic that this is something we need to explore.
Michelle Newman 37:22
Yeah, yeah, for sure, and I think that's a great place to end, because that's exactly what even on the inside cover of the book, Kristin, what you just said is exactly what this book is about. It says what began as a simple desire to catch up with a few friends turned into a deep exploration of the challenges and rewards that men experience in forming bonds with each other. In McCarthy's own words, it turns out that a lot of guys have a difficult time with friendship, and so it's a really great book for women to read too, I think because it helps us understand our husbands, our partners, our brothers, our whoever's you know, friendships and that we're all different, right? Men are from Mars, Women are from Venus. Type of thing I'm going to put, I'm going to put a link to who needs friends in our bookshop.org, shop, we highly encourage everybody to order your books from bookshop.org. If you don't have a local independent bookstore near you, and if you do, gosh, we highly recommend taking an afternoon to yourself and going and visiting your independent bookstore. It's just such a treat and a delight. And the people who work in independent bookstores, oh yeah. Know so much like they can help you. They can.
Carolyn Cochrane 38:39
They are so cool.
Kristin Nilsen 38:42
Penny cool,
Michelle Newman 38:44
but everything that's in our bookshop.org shop are books that we've we've picked ourselves, we've curated. However, there's 1000s more in bookshop.org and so you can just go there, and for every sale, we get a tiny bit of profit
Kristin Nilsen 39:04
compensation,
Michelle Newman 39:06
a little bit, a little bit, but that
Kristin Nilsen 39:08
is in our cup
Michelle Newman 39:08
helps us keep on trucking, and so we sure appreciate it.
Kristin Nilsen 39:14
In the meantime, are we wrapping it
Kristin Nilsen 39:16
up?
Kristin Nilsen 39:16
In the meantime, wait. Thank you for listening, everybody. We'll see you next time. In the meantime, let's raise our glasses for a toast courtesy of the cast of Threes Company, two good times, two Happy Days to Little House on the Prairie. Cheers, the information, opinions and comments expressed on the pop culture Preservation Society podcast belongs solely to Carolyn the crushologist and hello Newman, and are in no way representative of our employers or affiliates, and though we truly believe we are always right, there is always a first time the PCPs is written, produced and recorded in Minneapolis, Minnesota, home of the fictional wjm studios and our beloved Mary Richards, Nanu. Nanu, keep on truckin, and May the Force Be With You.