Billy and Joey and Delta Dawn at the Copacabana: Story Songs of the 70s

Michelle Newman 0:00

It's almost too awful to have to talk about you guys. It's the story of teenage sweethearts, an angry, violent and unhinged daddy, a bullet and a mistaken target. Daddy, please don't It wasn't his fault. Means so much to me. Hello. Well, there's a

Unknown Speaker 0:21

song that we're singing.

Speaker 1 0:24

Come on, get happy. It's what we'll be bringing we'll make you happy.

Michelle Newman 0:34

Welcome to the pop culture Preservation Society, the podcast for people born in the big wheel generation who were all too aware that rolling up the windows and turning on the car's air conditioning during a summer road trip was a privilege, not a right.

Carolyn Cochrane 0:51

We believe our Gen X childhoods gave us unforgettable songs, stories, characters and images, and if we don't talk about them, they'll disappear, like Marshall will and Holly on a routine expedition,

Kristin Nilsen 1:02

and today we'll be saving songs about car crashes, train accidents, shipwrecks, deadbeat dads, jail time, basic heartbreak and lots and lots of murder in an episode dedicated to the story songs of the 1970s

Carolyn Cochrane 1:16

I'm Carolyn, I'm Kristen

Michelle Newman 1:18

and I'm Michelle, and we are your pop culture preservationists.

Speaker 2 1:22

He was on his way home from candle talk, been two weeks gone, and he thought he'd stop at WEBS and have him a drink before he went home to her.

Kristin Nilsen 1:33

There are so many songs from our childhoods that have stuck with us in an eerie way, not just an oh I love this song kind of way, but more of an I feel funny and maybe a little bit scared and possibly very, very sad, but definitely fascinated, perhaps morbidly so kind of way. If this happened to you, it's very likely that the song that stuck with you told a story, a complete story with a beginning, a middle and an end, with a plot and characters. It wasn't just I and you, but Joey and Billy and daddy and the sheriff and the harbor Valley PTA people have been telling stories with songs for centuries, but the 1970s took that tradition and turned it into top 40 gold, and the tradition has largely gone away. We don't really have songs like this anymore. I mean,

Michelle Newman 2:20

country music songs will forever be about 98% story songs, but yeah, mainstream, not really. I actually looked up several songs that are at the top of the charts right now, and while they make sense, mostly, mostly, yeah, they aren't a story like these are like, one of the top songs right now is die with a smile by Lady Gaga on Bruno Mars, great song, lovely lyrics, if the world was over, I'd want to be next to you. But the song, in its entirety, is more of a sentiment. It's more of a like, she the first verse, yeah, she had a dream that, you know, they weren't together, and that's really sad, but not like the 60s and 70s. That's a good way of putting it. It's a sentence, a sentiment. You get a feeling they make sense. I mean, my goodness, in the early 80s, I mean, you can't make sense of most of director and Slayer. You think you're saying gibberish. And you're like, No, that's correct. Or Come on, Eileen, right. There's another one, gibberish. So at least the ones today, I feel like, you know, even like Taylor Swift songs and stuff, you get a you get a good feeling, yep, but not a story of, like, I woke up this morning and then, you know, you go through the day with the person, yeah.

Kristin Nilsen 3:36

And even those Taylor Swift songs you're talking about, she, of course, is known for her stories, but it is different. She's insinuating stories. She's not saying first this happened, and then this happened, and then this happened. She's insinuating stories. And then we all go look on the internet to find out about Betty and

Carolyn Cochrane 3:51

James and the stories that these songs told when we were growing up that we're going to talk about today. At least for me, there is a whole like movie playing in my head, like, I know what these people are wearing and what they look like. It's more than just the what's happening. It's basically the story is coming to life in my mind.

Kristin Nilsen 4:15

And sometimes that was literal, because there are movies mostly made for TV, movies that came from these songs. And so it wasn't just us that had the movie playing in their head. It was other people

Michelle Newman 4:26

as well. But that's why that those very specific stories. That's why I loved these songs, and still love these songs. Yeah,

Kristin Nilsen 4:33

and the the top 40 story song tradition really started in the 60s with the song teen Angel. My dad reminded me of this recently when we he asked about what topics we were recording, and I said, story, songs. And he said, Oh, like that train accident song. It was on the radio when you were a baby. And I didn't know what he was talking about, we had to, like, do some figuring out what, because he couldn't come up with the name teen Angel. But he told me the whole story. He told me the whole story. And that song was teen Angel. And until he said that, I had never fully understood how garishly tragic this sweet little song was. Teen Angel, teen Angel. Teen Angel.

Speaker 3 5:20

Oh, that fateful night the Carolyn star upon the railroad track.

Kristin Nilsen 5:32

Do you guys remember the story of teen

Michelle Newman 5:34

Angel when you said, train wreck? Train Yes.

Kristin Nilsen 5:38

Okay, so buckle up. Here's the story of teen Angel. It's a story about a young couple who escape their car after it gets stalled on the railroad tracks with a train coming, but then the girl runs back to the car to retrieve this is so dumb the class ring that he had given her, at which point the train slams into the car and the girl is killed. What a horrible story. They would never play that on the radio today. So teen Angel then opened the door for all sorts of teens dying tragically in song, mostly in fatal accidents of some kind, like Dead Man's curve and leader of the pack, both of which I'm pretty sure included the sound of screeching tires. Leader of the Pack. Yeah. And in the leader of the pack, doesn't she go look out? Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes. And the beauty of the leader of the pack was that you actually could act it out, which we did, directed by my cool aunt. She was like the stage director. She created the choreography. She had my brother pull up on his big wheel, which he would eventually then crash into the basement wall, and we'd go look out my brother's laying out dead on the on the basement floor. And there's a writer from the Washington Post named Samantha Drake who has pointed out that these teen tragedy songs started coming out about one year after Buddy Holly and Richie Valens and the Big Bopper were all killed in a plane crash, and that came just a short time after James Dean was killed in a car crash after filming a movie in which he dies by driving off a cliff. Well, because see, something was

Michelle Newman 7:13

happening and the deaths of all of these popular singers almost in very quick succession, it did it. They people just were like, they became sensationalized, right? And I do think that that contributed to the popularity, yeah, certainly of these types of songs, because it was, it was maybe a way for people to deal with it, or to, you know, to kind of redirect their grief over that. I don't know.

Kristin Nilsen 7:40

It could be either a coping mechanism, or, more cynically, a way to capitalize on the melodrama of teen angst. There's that

Michelle Newman 7:47

I read that the teenage tragedy songs, because that's a real genre of music. Teenage tragedy songs, I learned that that their popularity because, you know, they often feature suicide or death as a way to escape parents or societal expectations. That's why they resonated so strongly with the generation that was grappling with their identity and rebellion, right? Yeah, so, I mean, it kind of makes perfect. That

Kristin Nilsen 8:16

makes a lot of sense. And these are the first teenagers, too, by the way, prior to, you know, like the Elvis era, there was no such thing as a teenager. You were a child and then you were an adult. Now we're recognizing that teenagers are an actual age group with lots and lots of feelings. So the story songs of the 70s were preceded by the teen tragedy songs of the 60s. And in the 70s, the story topics expand beyond just motorcycle accidents, although there's still plenty of tragedy, and their success on the charts shows just how our brains are wired for story. We absolutely crave the story. Yeah,

Michelle Newman 8:54

for sure. I know, though, as like I told you guys, I love these songs so much, and all the ones that I'm talking about today, and I know, I'm sure the ones that you guys are going to talk about too, I I loved but also I'm going to say it everyone take a drink. They gave me that twisty feeling on my tummy. They do because I didn't like them, but I love them one because they were singable, yeah? And you can remember the lyrics, right? Because you just had to remember the story. Yeah. But going back to what Carolyn said earlier, they're so visual in my memory. When I re listen to my songs that I'm going to talk about today, I had like full like, all my senses were fired, if that makes sense, yeah, yeah.

Carolyn Cochrane 9:36

And I think a lot of that also has to do with the fact that, well, one, at least for me. I was hearing these songs like these were coming out of the radio. I wasn't necessarily owning a 45 of some of the ones I'm going to talk about. We actually had one of those homes with the new tone, you know, intercom system and AI. Happened. So we had the radio playing in my house a lot more than just listening in the car. It was piping through my head a lot and lots of times while I was doing nothing, like maybe just eating breakfast or driving in the car. And I think because I heard it so much and at times when I was like, kind of doing nothing, it's not like I was dancing to it, and that was just almost like a way to, I don't know, make it come alive in my head.

Michelle Newman 10:27

Yeah, did you guys then think on those like the stories, I don't want to give anything away, giving our songs away, but you guys, all you know, did you then after the song was over on the radio, did you kind of obsessively think about those people in that song.

Kristin Nilsen 10:43

Yes, yeah, you said something important. Carolyn, you said it made it more real. And I think that's one reason that these songs resonated with us, is because they were more real than Lady Gaga and Bruno Mars talking about her dream. For some reason these people are very real to us. And I remember thinking one of Cher's most famous story songs is gypsies, tramps and thieves. You know, her mama would dance for the money they'd throw. And I remember thinking that this was Cher's story. I thought Cher was a gypsy. Yeah, they don't say gypsy anymore, right? That's a derogatory term. So I remember not understanding that it wasn't Cher, that this happened to Cher. And actually, it's true. If you listen or read Cher's biography, her memoir, I just listened to it, that's why I said that it's actually it actually kind of was, yeah, it could actually fit, yeah. The interesting thing about Cher is that she was offered one of the most successful story songs of all time. She was offered the night that the lights went out in Georgia, which is sung by Vicki Lawrence, but no sunny says the night that the lights went out in Georgia is too dark, and he also thought she would alienate her southern fans. And so the songwriter of the night that the lights went out in Georgia was like, Well, I'm just gonna give it to my wife. My wife being Vicki Lawrence. And just so you listeners know, we've reached out to Vicki Lawrence because we think this isn't a whole episode. We think we could talk about the nights that the light went lights went out in Georgia for a whole episode.

Michelle Newman 12:12

Oh, yeah. We'll pick that story apart. Yeah. I mean, and, yeah, and would have to squeeze in a little, a little mama, right? Yeah,

Kristin Nilsen 12:20

for sure. So stay tuned. We haven't heard back from Vicki Lawrence yet, but stay tuned. And

Carolyn Cochrane 12:25

you know, I was going to share just about that song and a couple of the songs, one in particular that I chose, they also lent themselves to me asking questions to my parents about what was happening. And so I learned about Civil War stuff from that song. I just remember my dad explaining it and again talk about a visual, like, yeah, because up until that point, I didn't really, I don't even know if I knew what the Civil War really was, because, you know, I don't know what year that came out, but it was before I would have been taught anything like that in school. So it was very a lot of these became kind of educational, because obviously they were older than I was a couple of these, and I'd have to say, what does that mean, mom, or why was this happening? And I got some I learned a lot. Let's say I did. I totally did

Kristin Nilsen 13:11

too, because there were, especially if there were things that were sad or tragic, you needed help figuring it out. You grappled with it a little bit. I remember the song seasons in the sun really bothered me, and I knew something very sad and tragic had happened, and I asked my mom what it was, and she then taught me about suicide. I was five. I was five years old, but she told me that it was about suicide. Now I'm looking back. I'm like, is it about suicide? I'm not sure. Well, another episode, we

Michelle Newman 13:41

talked about it a lot in the sad songs, because that was one of mine, because the goodbye Michelle, it's hard to die. Always just got me from the age like four on, and I think we discovered that

Kristin Nilsen 13:49

it was that it was not, yeah, so either way, I'm asking my mom about hard questions, and she's giving me hard answers because of these songs. So there have been story songs beyond the 70s, but not that much. There are a handful in the 80s, and some today. And I wonder if today's music will see a pendulum swing back someday, because our brains, like we said, we do crave this. If we crave it, why aren't they giving it to us? I don't understand. Will murder ballads make a comeback in 2026 I don't know. Stay tuned, but now it is our turn. What story songs stuck with us, which ones wormed their way into our psyches and stayed

Unknown Speaker 14:30

that's a night that the lights went out in Georgia. That's a night that they haunted the

Speaker 4 14:40

innocent man. Oh, don't trust us all in all backwards, you want to

Carolyn Cochrane 14:50

go first? I would be happy to this song I'm going to preface with gives me all the feel. So I have a picture, but I also have. This kind of guttural, funny feeling, but sadness in my tummy, I was gifted the 45 of leaving on a jet plane when I was moving from one house. It wasn't the New Jersey, but it was from my between second and third grade I was moving, and so my neighbors gave me a little going away party in her garage. And I got one of those autograph books. They all like, did an autograph and, you know, put their phone number, and then they folded it in the fun ways anyway, and then they gave me this and they played it. So you have to remember that I'm already feeling kind of sad, so that kind of goes into this song, and then I do get it as a 45 so I am playing it over and over, probably, I mean, I'm only like seven at this point, but I'm sad. And so if you remember Peter, Paul and Mary made this the song that we probably heard first the leaving on a jet plane. John Denver wrote it in that in 1966 very quickly, he actually wrote it when he was only 23 and he's sitting in an airport waiting to board a plane, and this is early years of his career, so he's traveling a whole lot, and this was just a very personal song for him. So he writes it and actually just gives it as a Christmas gift to family in 1967 and he titled it babe. I hate to go. That was the original song. You could just feel that, can't you, yes. And then his producer, at the time, thought this might make it, this might be a little bit better. Let's change the title, and let's see if we can get anybody to record it. So that's when they renamed it, leaving on a jet plane, and Peter Paul and Mary record it in 1969 it is their most successful single. It hits number one on the Billboard, hot 100 but the and I know I heard that one on the radio, I'm sure, I'm sure I knew the words, but for some reason, it's John Denver's lyrics, and I mean in his voice, singing the song. And I can see him. I can see all his bags being packed. I can see him ready to go, standing there. I see him like looking out on a street looking for a taxi to come. He doesn't want to wake her up. Yeah, the taxi's waiting. He's blowing his horn. I just, I ache for this person. And to me, it's, it's a man. I don't really, I think I kind of maybe know who John Denver is. This didn't do super well for him. This didn't chart for him, believe it or not. It's only when it kind of came out on his greatest hits album, kind of a second time that it kind of found a new life for a lot of us. But it's not because we were hearing it on the radio all the time. And so those lyrics have kiss me and smile for me and hold me like you'll never let me go. Oh god, it breaks my heart, I know. And so and because then, and maybe this is another reason the song resonates so much, because we have, I have shared how we I have moved a lot growing up. And this, to me, is like saying goodbye. It's yeah, it's so quintessential of that. Then the part where it's like, now the time has come to leave you one more time. Let me kiss you, close your eyes, and I'll be on my way. Look sorry. I just want to, like, vomit, and I'm sorry. This song, it just gets me. And there is a movie playing in my head and I feel the character, I feel what they're feeling. I'm closing my eyes as I'm telling the story, because that's how in my head it is, I guess now, whenever I hear it, this movie plays the exact same movie that has played in my head since 1973 it will always be that movie. It will always be that same apartment. It'll always be that luggage. It will never not be. And the others redecorated. Yeah, it's not, it's still like kind of 70s. Really dig for it. It's dark because, you know, it's the sun is just coming up. But one of the criteria I used it when I was choosing my songs was that the story that it told and the story that played out in my head is still the one that I saw then, that I see today, like there are no changes, yeah. And so, yeah, that was the one that I wanted to share with you first, because that's the one I think that I remember kind of first. If that makes, Oh,

Kristin Nilsen 19:19

that's interesting. It stuck with you, and it's and it corresponded with an important thing that was happening,

Carolyn Cochrane 19:24

right? So I think there were a lot of things going on, and I got, I just played it over and over. I didn't it might have been, literally, my first 45 now that I think about it. I didn't purchase significant, but it was gifted to me. And again, I was probably sad I was in my room, I don't know, but it just

Kristin Nilsen 19:41

well, and do you? Here's a question for you, because I definitely, I have the movie playing in my head too, and but the characters are John Denver and Annie, and it's personal, and that's why I'm picturing John Denver and Annie. And we all know the story of John Denver and Annie, and I think everybody has this image of them. Being so in love but not being able to make it work, and so that, over time, makes the story even more heartbreaking for me, and

Carolyn Cochrane 20:07

even though I know all of that this will, this will always be about the sadness of saying goodbye and the gut wrenching, awful, awful moments. It's those moments before you're actually saying the goodbye, and then kind of having to say the goodbye.

Kristin Nilsen 20:24

And the picture that he paints of that, of that literal leaving, of the like you have, he's, she's still in bed, it's, he's waiting for the taxi. Yeah, yes, yes, all of that. It's too painful.

Carolyn Cochrane 20:39

So that's, that's my first story song, and it is painful, But I love it. Yes, yes.

Unknown Speaker 20:58

I hate to go.

Kristin Nilsen 21:03

Michelle, how about you? Yeah,

Michelle Newman 21:05

so my first pick is probably one of the most obvious story songs of the 70s. But as you guys know, I'm nothing if not obvious, and it's one of my very favorites to sing along to. And that's the little ditty about the absent father who gets what he deserves.

Speaker 4 21:23

A child arrived just the other day. He came to the world in the usual way, but there were planes to catch and bills to pay. He learned to walk while I was away and he was talking.

Michelle Newman 21:37

Okay, so obviously, that's cats in the cradle by Harry Chapin, and for the fact people out there, the song is from his fourth studio album from 1974 called verities and balderdash. Balderdash and the single topped the US Billboard Hot 100 in December of 1974 but it was his only number one song, which, as we kind of all know by now, became his signature song and a staple for folk rock music, and I would say, for karaoke bars as well. And his recording of the song was nominated for the 1975 Grammy Award for Best Male Pop Vocal Performance did not win, but it was inducted into the Grammy Hall of Fame in 2011 because now we, because we come on, that's like this. That's like a, like a

Kristin Nilsen 22:29

cultural marker. For some people, you can use that as a verb, like, oh, he totally got cats in the cradle.

Michelle Newman 22:35

Yeah. We all know what that means. We all know the negligent father and getting what he deserved. The song's lyrics actually began as a poem written by Harry Chapin's wife Sandra Ooh, which was inspired by the awkward relationship between her first husband and his father, interesting his father, who was a politician who served as a Brooklyn Borough President, so you can understand that never had time, right? Never had time for for the Son. Chapin also said the song was about his own relationship with his son, Josh, admitting, frankly, this song scares me to death, probably because he's like, great, I neglected him, but now, when I'm older, he's not going to have time for me. You know, personally, I've always loved the melancholy story in this song. I mean, it's sad, but at the same time, I always have felt it was just really well written. It is, yeah, and it's easy to understand, so easy to understand, obvious that the dad is a jerk, and then when he gets it kind of served back to him at the end, you're a little bit like, ah, but more, I was always like, See, see, like you got what you deserved, right? But I

Kristin Nilsen 23:50

always thought, like, I never interpreted it as jerk. As much as watch out, because you think you're doing the right thing. You think you're providing for your family and being a real man, but, uh oh, look what's gonna happen. Yeah, you don't wake up.

Michelle Newman 24:04

That's right, yeah. I mean, just an absent father, I don't have time to play ball with you. I don't have time. And that just built up and built up and built up. Also, I just loved from a little child. How and how can you not love a chorus that contains the phrase Little boy blue and the man? On the moon, absolutely. I mean, that's just beautiful, and it's a genius, and it's genius to fitting into the whole story. So I was doing some research on the song, and there are lots of forums out there that have the title, what's the meaning of cats in the cradle? And is cats in the cradle a happy or sad song? And I'm like, just listen to it. Have you lived in a bunker? Were you like, kidnapped as a child and put like, also, how intelligent Are you? What's the meaning of cats in the cradle? It's one of the most obvious story songs out there. It's pretty forthright. So there's a remake by ugly kid Joe, which keeps very close to the original. The video is very. Literal, very literal. It reminds me of something my daughters would have created when they were, you know, children. But it's actually pretty funny. It's pretty good and, oh, you don't know ugly kid, Joe, anyone, anyone out there? Yeah, is that? I'm sorry, it's an American Hard Rock Band. I'm thinking, I do. I remember. Oh, you do. American hard rock band from Isla Vista, California, formed in 1989 and if you want any more information, you don't get it. That's as far as I went. Yeah, research on ugly kid, Joe.

Kristin Nilsen 25:27

That brings up a good question, though, because I don't know that these story songs are ripe for remakes because we personalize them so much. Because I assume that it's Harry Chapin ignoring his kid because he's on the road with his band or what? Apparently it was, yeah, right. And I so I'm like, Wait, who are you? This is not your story. That's awkward. And

Carolyn Cochrane 25:46

think I mean a lot of these songs, this was pre music video, so we got to make up these stories in our heads, and nobody is going to recast my movie. So please don't try to make a video of my song. We got kind of some agency over that, which it's like

Kristin Nilsen 26:06

reading a book versus watching the movie. Yeah, yeah. You get to create it in your head.

Unknown Speaker 26:20

We'll get together.

Kristin Nilsen 26:35

Okay, you ready for the next one? Yes, all right, let's see if I can get through this one without crying. I might cry a lot today. We'll see. I don't know. You just never know what's gonna come up. What's going to come up, right? Never know. You just never know. So the wreck of the Edmund Fitzgerald was a number two hit for Canadian singer Gordon Lightfoot in November of 1976 and that date is important because less than a year earlier, less than a year on, November 10, 1975 a date that every Minnesotan knows by heart. The actual ship, the Edmund Fitzgerald, was broken in two by a rogue wave and sunk to the bottom of Lake Superior in a storm, taking with it 29 lives. There were no survivors, and this is freaky you guys. Gordon Lightfoot had the melody of this song in his head since he was three years old, and it was just waiting for the right lyric. He was just waiting, just waiting. And when Gordon Lightfoot saw the news of this modern day ship sinking so close to his Canadian home, he knew this would be the story for the melody he'd been carrying around with him since he was three.

Michelle Newman 27:44

That's like some savant type stuff, right? There's, yeah,

Kristin Nilsen 27:48

I know. And then when you think about the marriage of the story with that melody, it is like, it's cosmic. It's cosmic. This song hurts me. The song scares me. Still to this day, I get scared. I had just moved to Minnesota five months before it happened. It's possible that if I hadn't, I wouldn't have memories of the actual sinking of the Edmund Fitzgerald, but I do, and I'm scared. And anytime you add music to a memory, it intensifies. And so that opening of the song, that kind of twangy, reverberating guitar to me, that is the sound of Lake Superior. And every time I drive with Lake Superior to my right, I hear that sound. It's the sound of Lake Superior. I

Michelle Newman 28:45

can I just ask? Did they because I didn't live there at the time, so I don't know that I until today, realized how close to home, literally, for you guys, that was, or when I lived in Minnesota, I didn't know about it. Did they rescue all the bodies? Oh, so there no. So when you say, you drive by and you hear it, that could seriously be some spiritual star down

Kristin Nilsen 29:09

there. There is, they may have discovered one decomposed body. And there was, there was some discussion about, do we bring do we bring that body back? And they decided no. How

Michelle Newman 29:21

did they not have the capability to dive down and rescue bodies? I

Kristin Nilsen 29:25

wonder. Well, they didn't know where it was for a long time. Okay? I mean, just finding it is is difficult, because remember the Edmund Fitzgerald. This is the whole story. They tell it in the song, right? It disappears. The Arthur M Anderson is the last boat to have contact with the Edmund Fitzgerald. They can see the light of the Edmund Fitzgerald, and at a certain moment the light goes out. There is no more communication. The Arthur Anderson is like, hello, hello. Are you there? Are you there? Nobody's answering. And so the the boat is lost. The boat is lost. It's not that. It crashed, it's lost. So it was a big mystery, but obviously it sunk, because it's gone. The boat is gone. So the song chronicles the void, the final voyage of the Edmund Fitzgerald and the storm that took it down. As Gordon Lightfoot imagined it in his head, because he wrote the song just days after it happened, before there was any investigation of any kind. So in addition to the facts, he puts thoughts in people's heads and words in people's mouths in a way that makes it almost too real and makes me sad and scared. And it starts from the very first line. The legend lives on from the Chippewa on down from the big lake. See, I'm gonna cry now from the big lake. They call Gimme the lake. It is said, never gives up her dead when the skies of November turn gloomy, this is what I'm singing as I drive and look out my window. Then he goes on with with a load of iron ore, 26,000 tons more than the Edmund Fitzgerald Wade empty that good ship and true was a bone to be chewed when the gales of November came early. The

Speaker 5 31:07

legend lives on from the Chippewa home down of the big lake. They called it shogumi, the lake. It is said, never gives up for dead when the skies of November turn gloomy.

Kristin Nilsen 31:24

I don't know if Gordon Lightfoot gave us the phrase when the gales of November came early, but if he did, my hat is off to him, because it is with us for good. And I am scared. And when you drive to we call it the North Shore, you drive by these ports where you can watch them filling the ships with iron ore. It's like little black balls that are literally two stories high. And what do I think of every time I'm worried about the gales of November coming early? But you know

Michelle Newman 31:53

what? I think I'm viewing this as this whole glass half empty, half full type thing situation here going on because I'm actually thinking of this as quite beautiful, that every time you pass, you're honoring those lives lost so tragically by his song, because you're thinking they're not forgotten. Oh, let's just say no, because every time people hear that song, but we have a very specific personal story here with Kristen telling us that. And you go up there often, all the time, so you think of this every time. So it's actually, it's, it's really beautiful.

Kristin Nilsen 32:29

He has, he has done something very special for this story and these families. He has kept the story alive. For sure, I'll never, I'll never be done with the story. I'll never forget the story. And it's verse four that is the one that really makes me cry. It's the one that sends chills up my spine. Still, 50 years later, the storm is here. The crew knows it. The crew knows that they're in trouble. And I cry every time I hear these words. When supper time came, the old cook came on deck saying, fellas, it's too rough to feed you at 7pm a main hatchway caved in, and he said, fellas, it's been good to know, ya,

Unknown Speaker 33:09

they're gonna die and they're

Kristin Nilsen 33:12

just and that's when I cry every single time, oh, and I get goosebumps every single time. I just can't does anyone know where the love of God goes when

Speaker 5 33:21

the word turn the minutes to hours, The Searchers all say they'd have made Whitefish Bay if they'd put 15 more miles behind her. They might have split up, or they might have capsized. They live, drove deep and took water, and all that remains is the faces and the names of the wives and the sons and the

Michelle Newman 33:53

daughters. It's such a beautiful song.

Kristin Nilsen 33:54

And okay, just let's think of, let's do the math on that those sons and daughters. You have to do the math. They are our age. Oh, I was seven years old when this happened, and they likely were too they are out there right now. They're probably hearing this song just like I am. They probably fear the gales of November coming early, just like I do. It's it's almost too real.

Carolyn Cochrane 34:17

Wow. So because I didn't live in Minnesota. I lived in Texas. I did not know that this was a current story, that this had happened, that this song was based on something that had happened recently. In my mind, this was something that was like civil war, like civil war story that it tells. And the people that I'm seeing on the decks are like, you know, they have maybe those pea coats on and

Michelle Newman 34:43

the big, yeah, they have the hat that goes like a boat,

Carolyn Cochrane 34:47

and they're like the gales of November, like, even the words, some of the words, were really old fashioned, but still in my head, it is like some kind of schooner from the 1800s right? I mean, at the end the. Same sadness that these people, these men were lost and their families, but a whole different movie was playing in my head, interesting,

Kristin Nilsen 35:08

and so I that would affect you differently. I mean, yes, it's still a sad song, but if you if you knew that the kid in your class lost his dad right in the Edmund Fitzgerald, that's a whole different story. Oh, yeah. So

Carolyn Cochrane 35:21

I think that is an interesting way to look at a lot of these songs too. Is where we were, like, the perspective we bring from where we lived, or what we'd been exposed to, and our life experiences can really shape it, maybe a little differently, at least what you know, the visuals of, yeah,

Kristin Nilsen 35:39

I will always get goosebumps, but it's just like you said, Carolyn, you hate it and you love it. You cling to it and you want to listen to it more and more, even though it causes you such pain.

Michelle Newman 35:49

Yes, and this one hits different, because it's a true story. True

Speaker 5 35:53

story, The legend lives on from the Chippewa down of the big lake they call get the chikuni. Superior, they said, never gets up for dead when the gales of November.

Michelle Newman 36:13

All right. Carolyn,

Carolyn Cochrane 36:14

okay, all right. My next song comes the year after leaving on a jet plane. This would be the first 45 that I probably bought with my own money. And this song is Billy, don't be a hero. The

Unknown Speaker 36:30

marching band came down

Speaker 1 36:37

on Main Street. The soldier blew still in behind. I looked across from there, I saw Billy waiting to go. Don't be a hero. Don't be a fool with the lie.

Carolyn Cochrane 36:46

The picture, the movie that plays in my mind, is so vivid. Often people think that this song was based on the Vietnam War, and people going to I did, I'm sure to sign up. Yeah, it actually was written before the Vietnam War. So Beau Donaldson and the haywoods are the American group that made this a US hit. It was actually written and composed by two British songwriters, Mitch Murray and Peter Callender. The song actually it refers to the Civil War, the American Civil War. I had no idea. A few of the clues are, there's this particular drum pattern that, yes, goes throughout the song, and that, right, yes, and that is a civil war, like a known drum pattern for staying in line and all of that for the Civil War. And we have the marching band came down along Main Street, the soldier blues fell in behind. And I think, you know the blues are the Union soldiers, so we know we're talking Civil War. Here I looked across, and there I saw Billy waiting to go and join the line, okay? And with her head upon his shoulder, his young and lovely fiance, from where I stood, I saw she was crying. I'm not, I'm not really crying, but, you know, yeah, and through her tears, I heard her say, and then there's that begging, like, you know, she's like, Billy, don't, don't be a hero. Don't be a fool with your life. Come back and make me your wife. And I will tell you, I think in my head again, we're talking about these movies. My mom would have told me that this was probably referring to the Vietnam War. So this is like a young, you know, girl in the 60s, probably long blonde hair, kind of a thing, calling out.

Kristin Nilsen 38:32

And it was also lining up with people not wanting people to go to Vietnam,

Carolyn Cochrane 38:35

right? Yeah, exactly. And then when he does decide to go, and she's like, keep your head low, like just don't try to be brave, any of those things. And then you guys, the soldier blues, they were trapped on a hillside, remember, and the battle is raging all around, and the sergeant cries, we've got to hang on, boys. We've got to hold this piece of ground. I need a volunteer to ride some extra men, and Billy's hand was up in a moment, forgetting all the words she said, we know right. Then you're like, Don't raise your hand. Don't do it. Just see it. And then that last verse where it's like, just basically words,

Speaker 6 39:14

Beyonce got a letter that told how Billy died that day. The letter said that he was a hero. She should be proud. He died that way.

Unknown Speaker 39:31

I heard she threw

Kristin Nilsen 39:39

away, Billy, I'm still

Carolyn Cochrane 39:43

mad. No, I know I'm mad, but I was, I was happy that Billy was a hero, but obviously very saved a lot of lives. Well, yeah, so I know, but that again, I in my mind, was the very first song that I knew all of the words to like it. If the record wasn't on, there's one thing to know, the words when the song is playing on the radio or you're playing the record, but if someone just said to you, sing, Billy, don't be a hero. I could do it. And that was like the first song that I could do that, too. And I felt so like, I don't know, I'm very obviously, I'm very proud of it. I remember it to this day. Sadly, I will tell you that not everybody thinks of this song as wonderfully as I do in a reader's poll, in Rolling Stone, the 10 Worst songs of the 70s, this song came in at number eight.

Kristin Nilsen 40:34

No, I don't agree with that. I loved this song. Yeah, it's a great song.

Carolyn Cochrane 40:38

I loved it too, and I didn't realize this because I was not a fan. I hate to say it of the TV show Friends, I would watch it when it was on, but I was a weird age, like when I was a little older. But evidently, there is a scene in an episode of Friends where, and now I'm not even going to know everybody's name. What's David swimmer's name, uh, Ross. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. Ross and and what's the other cute guys? Joey, Joey, yeah, yeah. Joey, I know I I'm sorry. Listeners, I really am. So Joey and Ross are talking about, like, the last time they've maybe been with a girl or had a date. And Ross says, do the words Billy, don't be a hero, mean anything to you. And it's interesting, because there's lots of Reddit threads on this, because there's a sweet spot of who would even know what Billy Don't be a hero even means. And some people are like, this can't even be real, because he wouldn't have even been he'd only been three in 19. Doesn't matter. Doesn't matter. Yeah, it doesn't matter. Yeah, saying it's been a long time. It's like this was so kind of long ago. Yeah, that's how long it's been. But anyway, so it's famous in pop culture

Michelle Newman 41:49

history, yeah. Which I thought,

Kristin Nilsen 41:50

Oh, definitely. And I think that sometimes these story songs that make us cry, that make us sad, they get a bad rap, and real music heads sometimes do not like songs that are overly sentimental and make us feel a great deal, and so they'll get dinged for that and overly literal, yeah, really, literally literal, yes, exactly, but I'm saying they're doing their job. So I love power to you. I

Michelle Newman 42:13

still love them. Yeah, I do too.

Michelle Newman 42:22

I All right. Well, my next pick is the story about a showgirl named Lola who becomes embroiled in a tragic, lethal fight between her bartender boyfriend, Tony, and a cocky patron named Rico. Let's go to the hottest spot north of Havana.

Carolyn Cochrane 42:56

The COFA

Michelle Newman 42:59

Copacabana was released in 1978 as the third single from Barry manilows fifth studio album. Even now it's a great album. Did you know I did not know this until yesterday. The song appeared in the movie foul play with Goldie Hawn and Chevy Chase. Well, I've seen I feel like I loved that movie, and I'm quite certain my mother did because she loved Goldie Hawn, so I bet I saw it in the theater, but when I read the synopsis of the movie, I was like, oh, yeah, that's coming back to me. Anyway, this on Copacabana was in that movie. Okay, that's kind of a fun fact. And yeah. So it was written by Barry Manilow, but he had some help from Jack Feldman and Bruce Sussman. Now fun, amazing fact, Bruce and Barry are longtime collaborators, and together have written over 200 songs for numerous recording artists, besides Barry films, stage musicals and TV shows,

Kristin Nilsen 43:53

I feel like I know that name, and I bet it's because of Barry Manilow. Well,

Michelle Newman 43:57

probably, probably it's because listeners we had Barry Manilow episode way back in season one, but that's been so long ago, we've already forgotten everything. Do it again. We should just all listen to that episode after this one. Okay, let's do it. And listeners, you should too. So Copacabana was inspired by a conversation between Manilow and Sussman at the Copacabana hotel in Rio de Janeiro, when they were like, sitting there, and they were like, Hmm, I wonder if there's ever been a song about the Copacabana, because, of course, that's what you ask when you're at a hotel. I guess so after returning to the United States, Barry asked Sussman and Feldman to write a story song for him, like he specifically asked for a story song, and then he wrote the music. Barry Manilow wrote the music. Do you know who inspired the song's famous lyric? You know her name is Lola. She was a showgirl. Do you know who inspired

Kristin Nilsen 44:52

Lola? Lola? Is it like Sid Sharice or something?

Michelle Newman 44:55

No, who's a little more obvious than that. It is. Is it

Carolyn Cochrane 44:59

Lucy ball? Oh, it's Lola

Kristin Nilsen 45:00

Falana. Oh, that's very

Carolyn Cochrane 45:04

literally, because, you know, she when she dresses up like, yeah,

Michelle Newman 45:10

although I don't, I've never pictured Lola like that. So Lola, you know, as a showgirl, right? Yellow feathers and her hairdresser. So, as we all know, and really, even my own girls used to act this song out all the time, complete with my younger daughter, who was only about like three or four at the time, they would put a fake mustache on her, and she'd wear a Vikings jersey with a baseball cap, turned around, and then my older daughter would get, like, a we had a purple feather boa. It wasn't yellow, but we just pretended it was, anyway, so funny. So yeah, everybody, everybody knows that the story focuses on Lola. She's a showgirl at the Copacabana, and her sweetheart Tony, who's a bartender at the club. And then one night, a wealthy man named Rico shows up, and we know he's wealthy because he wore a diamond, and he takes a fancy to Lola, but Tony is not having it, and steps in when Rico goes a bit too far, the punches flew and chairs were smashed in two, and then there was blood and a single gunshot. Sadly, it was Tony who died. So cut to 30 years later, the club has been transformed into a disco, but a depressed, middle aged Lola, I picture her like smoking a cigarette, yeah, in her showgirl attire. We are told she's just now a drunk. She's sitting at the bar. She lost her youth, she's lost her Tony and everyone, and now she's lost her mind. Do

Michelle Newman 46:50

you guys remember singing this at the tops of our voices at the berry concert, and even Carolyn got into it. And listeners, unless you remember Carolyn does not like this song. And Kristen and I almost picked her out of the pop culture Preservation Society, but I have video proof everyone, she's still saying she doesn't like it. If

Carolyn Cochrane 47:09

you're watching this, I don't like it as a Barry Manilow song. So

Michelle Newman 47:12

she goes, so singable. So Kristen and I are like, what he plays it at the end, and everybody has these little light sticks, right? And I mean, by this time when you've been sitting through, and I know many, many of our listeners have seen Barry Manilow in concert, so you guys get it, but when you've sat through that many singable songs and you get to Copacabana, you let loose, yeah, you do. You just you dance like you. I You guys, I remember, and we were standing and, you know, an aisle, right? Not an aisle, but like, you know where your seats pop up, we don't have a lot of room. No, I was doing moves I've learned on Dancing with the Stars. I was like, I can salsa, I can marunge, I

Kristin Nilsen 47:52

get your glow stick. You got your glow stick? Remember the old man next to me didn't know how to crack his glow sticks? I'm helping him with his glow stick. Yeah,

Michelle Newman 48:00

it was so fun. It's such a great song, and so singable, and again, easy to remember the lyrics too, because you just have to remember how the story goes. Yeah. So Copacabana debuted on Billboard magazine's Top 40 chart on July 7. 1978 peaked at number eight. Feel like I shouted that. I don't know why I'm so excited about that. It's his first gold single for a song he wrote, or CO wrote, and this is such an interesting fact, and we I know we disclosed this in our Barry Manilow episode, and we couldn't believe it, but it's true, this song earned Barry Manilow his first and only, and only Grammy award, I am shocked, for best male Pop Vocal Performance in February of 1979 I believe that was a trivia question one of us gave, I don't even remember if it was me or somebody else. That's how long ago it's been. And we were like, the question was, like, what song has he has, you know, he's only won one. And we were going, like, No, that can't be true. We'll take that part out. But I was just saying that to remind you guys can't believe that I can't. It's

Carolyn Cochrane 49:03

such an iconic song too, that you know, even if you didn't like it, and I'd like, yeah, it's hard to explain. It's just not a Barry Manilow song. I mean, it is a Barry Manilow song, but it doesn't fit in the jump

Michelle Newman 49:16

shot Boogie for me, for him, yeah, sappy love song, but it's like, I love jump shot boogie. Or there's other songs. I mean, there are now, but other

Carolyn Cochrane 49:25

ones, it's, I don't know exactly why, but even if you're somebody like Andy, who's maybe not going to own the album or whatever, everybody knows that song. And like, right now, I'm thinking, This is the song that you guys make up the dance to for Maggie's wedding. Oh yeah. Like, this is going to be the one Done, done that everybody, because everyone's going to know it. I mean, I think even Maggie and Grace know this

Michelle Newman 49:46

song. Okay, that would be super fun, though, because they left it out. But I think, I think Maggie needs to be in it. She needs to come out as Lola with yellow feathers and hair.

Kristin Nilsen 49:55

Yes, I'm sure. But, um. Yeah, but you're right. It's told it's so iconic and at the same time that you're like, but it's not a Barry Manilow song. It is also an iconic song for him. Like, I immediately think, Copacabana, Barry Manilow.

Carolyn Cochrane 50:14

That's not what I wanted. I guess if, like, I wanted him to be remembered forever for, like, yeah, and he

Michelle Newman 50:19

is, and he is, but I just also so interesting that it's the only Grammy Award. But

Kristin Nilsen 50:28

it could be because that song was so ubiquitous and it was so broad, it had such broad appeal. Yes, maybe the ballads were just for Carolyn, right? Yes, my mom and for Carolyn, they really love those ballads, but Copacabana came along and no one was left out, not a single person.

Carolyn Cochrane 50:44

I mean, think about when that is 1979 he gets the Grammy. We're talking disc like you could hear this could play in a disco town. Yeah,

Kristin Nilsen 50:51

it's a roller skating song, right? It's

Michelle Newman 50:54

just one of those bops that if I'm in a bad mood, it can be on one of my playlists, of like, a pick me up type playlist, because even if I'm in a bad mood, you can't help but start trying, yeah, like trying to Salsa dance again right now, forward to back to forward to back to,

Kristin Nilsen 51:20

okay, I'm gonna bring it down a few notches. Everybody. I'm gonna bring it down. So in the same conversation with my dad about teen angel, he surprised me more than once, because remember, my dad is a classical music guy. He was a junior high band director. So he likes real music. He likes choral music and operettas. He likes marches, but he secretly knows more about pop music than he lets on. And when I said I'd be sharing the song diary, he goes, Huh? Bread, I found her diary underneath a tree, like he just pops out with it. So he knew not just the song, which I think is kind of obscure, but also the band bread and the first line of the song. And perhaps that's because once you hear the song, you're so moved it's really hard to forget it. Do you guys remember this song?

Michelle Newman 52:11

Yeah, when you just said diary, I was like, No. And then when you said bread, and I found her diary under the tree, I could start to hear it. You

Speaker 3 52:28

I found her dairy underneath the tree and started reading about me the words she'd written took me by surprise.

Kristin Nilsen 52:45

So it's the story of a man who finds his wife's diary underneath a tree. And in my child mind, the diary was buried. And I now realize, as an adult like I've been thinking the diary was buried this whole time, I now realize that's probably not true. She probably just left it there beneath the tree, and he opens it, and he reads it, and he's surprised by what he finds, because the words that she's saying about him, she's never said them out loud to him before, and his heart just swells with love for her. And he confronts her with it. He said, I read your diary and I read what you said about me, but still, she can't show it. She pretends not to care. And I feel like this is something that women experience on a more regular basis, the inability to of their partner, to fully express how they feel to the person that they love the most. But even so, he says, even though she can't admit it and she can't express herself, he says, So achingly, so beautifully. The refrain that makes this song so painful and personal, he says, and as I go through my life, I will give to her, my wife, all the sweet things I can find, all the sweet things I can find. And even if she can't express herself, they're going to have this beautiful life. He's such a good husband, and of course, I'm personalizing it again, just like Cher is a gypsy. I think David gates, the lead singer of bread, is such a good husband, and portraying the love and the care that good husbands should but then he goes back to the tree, and he opens the diary again, and this time, when he reads, He says, The words began to stick and tears to flow. Her meaning now was clear to see, and this is the part that breaks my heart. Oh my god. I have goosebumps already. The love she waited for was someone else, not me. Oh my god. Total nipple lightning right now. Oh my god. She's been unfaithful to this beautiful, sensitive man, and instead of raging, as most of us would, he goes back to that beautiful refrain, but he changes the words in a way that will break your heart. Yeah. He says. And as I go through my life, I will wish for her, his wife, all the sweet things she can find, all the sweet things they can find.

Unknown Speaker 55:12

And now I'm open mouth sobbing.

Michelle Newman 55:16

I that's not that's not even a human that would wish that.

Kristin Nilsen 55:23

Oh, and you know, what's funny is that people in the internetosphere are clearly personalizing this song too, just like I am. Because what you'll see from a lot of people is incredulity, and they're like, this isn't even true. He just, he just made this up. He even admitted that he made it up. And I'm like, Well, yeah, there's no requirement, but

Michelle Newman 55:44

it's like true. Every author who has ever written a book, it's

Kristin Nilsen 55:47

a trick. Yeah, they said they just made it up, but I think the sincerity with which he sings this song is what it makes the buy in for the listener, off the charts, they're feeling it so much that they're convinced that David gates isn't is confiding in them, essentially. And that's kind of why I get so sad, because I'm so sad for David gates, to whom this never happened.

Carolyn Cochrane 56:16

I don't even know what David gates looks like.

Kristin Nilsen 56:18

He looks just like Grant Good eve.

Michelle Newman 56:21

Oh yes, he's cute. Then, yeah,

Kristin Nilsen 56:24

he is. He probably has like, a little puffy vest on with a stripe on it. I got them mixed up all the time, all the time, but it's the listening of this song, right? I can tell you the story, and it sounds very sad, but it's the listening to it. I want everybody now we can only play clips, but I want you to go and sit down and listen to this song, beginning to end, and just see if you start to cry, because it's so plaintive, and it's so mournful, and he's and like I said, you'll just think David Gates is the best husband.

Carolyn Cochrane 57:03

Over. Okay, you guys, I saved the best for last. My third favorite story song is delta dawn, the version by Helen Reddy.

Speaker 4 57:23

What's that flower you have on? Could it be a faded rose from days gone by?

Speaker 4 57:35

He wasn't meeting you here today to take you to his mansion.

Kristin Nilsen 57:41

Oh yeah, Dylan, ready, singing

Michelle Newman 57:48

that as a child. Yes, it's

Carolyn Cochrane 57:51

so vivid. The pictures that I get in my mind are so clear. And I want to tell you a little bit about the song before I get into any of my personal memories of the song because it is such a vivid story, and it was written by songwriters Alex Harvey and Larry Collins, and the words were inspired by Harvey's mother, who was a woman that was described as having kind of a hard life. He described her as having come from the Mississippi Delta, and she always lived her life as if she had a suitcase in her hand, but nowhere to put it down. And he explained that she was a hairdresser in Brownsville, Texas, which totally fits into my image of what I thought of her. And she was kind of a free spirit, and not everybody always understands people like that. And he had kind of a complicated relationship with her because of of that reputation that she had in town when he was 15 years old. He was in a band, and he had just won a contest where he was going to be on a TV show in Jackson, Tennessee, and his mother really wanted to come, and I told her, No, I don't want you to be there. You're going to embarrass me. Oh, ouch. I know, I know. I told her that I thought she would embarrass me because she drank a lot, and sometimes she would do things while she was drinking that made me feel ashamed, so I asked her not to come that night.

Michelle Newman 59:10

It's understandable, though. Oh yeah. Like, I can't. I can't fault him for no setting that boundary. Now, we call it a boundary, but

Carolyn Cochrane 59:18

yeah, right, and he's 15 at the time, so you get it, it's going to be televised, and I'm sure he's probably speaking from experience. So when Harvey returned home from the taping, he discovered that his mother had died in a car accident when she crashed her vehicle into a tree, something he suspected had been a suicide, overcome by grief and struck with guilt, music seemed to be young, Harvey's only way of coping, and that's why he wrote Delta

Speaker 4 59:44

dawn. She's 41 and her daddy still calls her baby. All the folks round Brownsville say she's crazy how she walks downtown where there's. In case, looking for a mysterious dark haired man,

Unknown Speaker 1:00:08

I had no idea

Michelle Newman 1:00:11

either. I know. I'm gonna run it and listen to that song in its entirety 10 times after this, yes,

Carolyn Cochrane 1:00:19

yes. So he actually recorded it first, and then I don't really remember this version, but Tanya Tucker recorded it I remember. That's the one I remember, yeah, and she was only 13 years old. Wow. But the one I remember most is the Helen ready version, which reached number one. It was her next number one single after I am woman, I am woman, right? And you guys, I'm just going to say it right now. I want to devote an entire episode to Helen Reddy. Oh, I'm so I want to Yeah, because when you look at her greatest hits album, which is what I kind of looked at, I think that's when I would hear it a lot at my home because my parents also loved Helen ready. So I forgot how much I loved that album and how I knew all the words to all the songs Kristen. Do you remember when we were in California, Kristen had a playlist called, what was it called? Do you know what I'm talking about. Is it my Bodega Bay playlist? Yes. Yes. Okay, yeah. So we were listening to Kristen's Bodega Bay playlist, and it was full of some Helen reddy songs, and all of a sudden one would come on, like, I don't know Angie baby. I would know every word to Angie baby, or you and me

Michelle Newman 1:01:36

against the word that one my mom used to always because we have that. I still have my mom's Helen ready album, and that, because she would always say that that was almost like our anthem, because, you know, she was a single mom, often around a lot, and the way that that starts with that little girl saying, Tell me again, Mommy, I always thought that was me, like I imagine that was me, because that song, and I listened to it not too long ago, and I had to turn it off. It's still too close, I bet.

Carolyn Cochrane 1:02:04

So, yeah, so many of Helen reddy songs are kind of Anthem like, I mean, they do have this place where, you know, she was, she was kind of singing that feminist anthem to, like, you know, we can do this. Obviously, I am woman. She did. Ain't no way to treat a lady. Remember that

Kristin Nilsen 1:02:24

ain't no way to treat a lady.

Carolyn Cochrane 1:02:27

Yeah, but you forget, you know the words until it pops on the Bodega Bay playlist and I am just singing. Keep on singing. Don't stop. Someday you're gonna make a lot of people happy when they come to hear you.

Michelle Newman 1:02:43

Please, listeners, please. I don't care if you have to do this after you get home, if you're in the car, go to YouTube and watch Carolyn pretend she's Helen Reddy.

Carolyn Cochrane 1:02:53

Oh my gosh. The woman was amazing. I mean, she was iconic. We love Helen Reddy. So everybody, don't worry, you're going to hear me singing more because we

Michelle Newman 1:03:02

are going to devoted episodes to like the carpenters and Barry Manilow, who we also love to win. It's

Kristin Nilsen 1:03:08

the same it's the same era, it's the same style of music. And we, and all three of us, had that greatest hits album in our homes.

Carolyn Cochrane 1:03:15

Oh yes, I'm sure so many of our listeners families had that playing in their homes, and again, such iconic songs that you're gonna forget that you know all the words do

Kristin Nilsen 1:03:26

That's right, like energy, baby, that's such an obscure song. And you know every word, I know

Carolyn Cochrane 1:03:30

every word too. So, long story short, I love Delta dawn. I pictured her in that with that suitcase, and just so sad for her, because I picture her aging as the song goes on. I mean, we've got these different verses. And by the end, again, I see her with this faded rose from days gone by, sorry, dad, and just talking to my mom and asking her, like, what's happening in the song when I'm young, and not really understanding it. And she explains to me, there was a woman who got, you know, probably jilted at the altar, somebody broke up with her, and she keeps hoping he told her he was going to come back, and she keeps waiting for him with that faded Rose and her suitcase in her, I know,

Michelle Newman 1:04:13

and She's going to that mansion and she's in the sky. Back.

Michelle Newman 1:04:27

Okay, my last choice is a teenage tragedy. Oh, I can't wait. It's almost too awful to have to talk about you guys. It's the story of teenage sweethearts, an angry, violent and unhinged. Daddy, a bullet and a mistaken target. Daddy, please don't It wasn't his fault. He means so much to me. Oh, but we have to go there. We have to dive in to run. Joey, run. I.

Speaker 7 1:05:09

Daddy, please don't, it wasn't his fault. He means so much to me, Daddy, please don't, we're gonna get married. Just you wait and see.

Michelle Newman 1:05:22

Why do we know like,

Kristin Nilsen 1:05:24

you have to sing the chorus, oh, Joey run

Unknown Speaker 1:05:29

it's only two words. It's just two words.

Michelle Newman 1:05:31

This song was performed by soft rock singer David Geddes, released in 1975 and I'm wondering, like, why did we know it so well? I know because it was a US Top 40 hit peaked at number four on Billboard's Hot 100 chart in the fall of 1975 and hit number one on cash box Magazine's Top 100 so it was all over the place. It was. But I actually think, and I think you guys will agree, I think we all know it so well because of how unbelievably and horribly tragic. Yeah, images we got from this song

Kristin Nilsen 1:06:07

were they were gonna get married, yes? Well,

Michelle Newman 1:06:11

she was probably pregnant, right? I didn't know that's her no. That didn't hit me until later, but so to me, this song is so memorable, memorable because of that yucky feeling it gave me all inside. It also terrified me when she said he's got a gun. Yes, it's scary, I know and then, but no matter how tragic or terrifying i It was like going past a terrible accident. I had to just keep listening, and I had to keep going back and back to that song. I mean, hearing her doing the daddy, please don't It wasn't his. It just tore me up. And then that whole married it's so senseless, it's senseless, it's senseless. And then she stands in front of them the gun. I got angry all over again the other day watching the video, which we're going to, for sure, put in this week's Weekly Reader. No, there was a video. Video, yeah, you guys, it's just so you know, she steps in front of and his voice.

Unknown Speaker 1:07:15

When I was a stepped in front

Michelle Newman 1:07:19

of the gun. Anyway, I'm not sure I got the whole pregnancy thing until I watched, until I watched Rachel sing it ugly during the first season. It had a whole resurgence during Glee's first season, because they did it. I just thought they were in love, and the dad was took and didn't like Joey. But if you listen to the lyrics, it's very, it's very insinuated that she's

Kristin Nilsen 1:07:41

pregnant, yeah, and that's why daddy would shoot him, because you just maybe,

Michelle Newman 1:07:46

yeah. But, I mean, she tells him, don't come here. And he's like, I love her so much. I have to protect her, because he says he's seen her back and bruised before. So he's, you know, like he's, of course, he's gonna go to her.

Kristin Nilsen 1:07:57

There's some darkness there. I mean, on both sides, daddy, just stopped a

Carolyn Cochrane 1:08:03

soap opera storyline, like I could see that totally playing out in, like, all my children or something at that same time period,

Michelle Newman 1:08:08

a fun story, super quick one time. We were sitting, I think I've said this before in a previous episode, but it just cracked me up. We were sitting around a bonfire with our girls, and we were talking about, kind of like, awful songs. Maybe we were talking about, I don't even know, a song that was popular then, and we were like, Oh, we had this song. We had this awful song, and we called it up, you know, on Spotify, or Apple or whatever, and played it and like Jaws, like chins to the ground, they were just looking at us, like, what was wrong with you people? I know that you listened, and then if you listen to it enough that it became so popular,

Kristin Nilsen 1:08:45

and that and the pure manipulation, I'm not, I don't say that in a bad way because I because it worked and I loved it, but it is pure manipulation of that little voice, Daddy, please don't his

Unknown Speaker 1:08:57

fault. Means so much to me. Who is

Carolyn Cochrane 1:09:00

that voice? Did you find out who sings that part?

Kristin Nilsen 1:09:05

No, she's out there. She's probably out there. Yeah, no, she's dead. Yes, I forgot she stepped in front of the gun, yeah. Oh, my God, such manipulations. Did

Speaker 6 1:09:22

you behind me. He's got a gun, and she stepped in front of me. Suddenly, a shack rang out, and I saw Julie falling. I ran to her. I held her close. When I looked down, my hands were red, and his last words, Julie said,

Speaker 7 1:09:48

Daddy, please don't. It wasn't his fault. He means so much to me, Daddy, please don't. We're gonna get married.

Kristin Nilsen 1:10:05

Hey. So the next song is the biggest selling song of 1973 and that is Tony Orlando and Don's tie a yellow ribbon round the old tree. Do. I'm

Unknown Speaker 1:10:28

coming home and I've

Kristin Nilsen 1:10:30

been singing it and crying it since it came out in 1973 you probably all remember the story. It's about an incarcerated man who has served his time, and he's on a bus returning home to his wife, who he's not certain, will have her back, and so he tells her to tie a yellow ribbon round the old oak tree. It's been three long years. Do you

Michelle Newman 1:10:52

still want still want me if I don't see a ribbon round the old oak tree? Bus?

Kristin Nilsen 1:11:10

Oh, tree, okay, yes, Carolyn, oh, she has her hand raised. It

Carolyn Cochrane 1:11:14

is this moment I'm today years old when I find out that he's coming home from being incarcerated. I thought he was coming home from the war.

Kristin Nilsen 1:11:23

There's a reason you think that, yeah, we'll get to that in a minute, but there is a reason that you think that. Okay, so they're on the bus, and as they get closer and closer to the old oak tree, he's so nervous he can't he can't even look. And he says, Bus Driver, please look for me. And then the song gets real quiet and very slow, and now the whole damn bus is cheering. And I can't believe I see 100 yellow ribbons around the

Unknown Speaker 1:11:53

old tree. I'm comfortable.

Kristin Nilsen 1:12:00

Tree. So I think it's, I think it's something about the whole damn bus is cheering, and the whole bus, the whole damn bus, has been on this journey with him, and so they're invested in this guy's future. They're so happy for him. It's just too much. It's like, it's like a collective experience that they all have on this bus. It's like the Olympics. It's like watching the Olympics. Bus Driver, please look for me. I can't look I'm not sure it would affect me if he didn't have to have the bus driver look for him. And the whole damn bus was cheering. So a lot of people think that this is based on a true story, and it is based on a story just not a true one. The story first appeared in an issue of Reader's Digest from the perspective of a group of college students on a bus ride, like on a bus trip to spring break or something like that. They are the whole damn bus. That's who this is. They're the ones cheering. The writer of the story sued the songwriters because they did not ask for permission to use this story. The writer of the story did not win the case because there's also a body of folklore about soldiers coming home from the Civil War with the same yellow ribbon theme. And the songwriters were able to argue that this was their inspiration, not the Reader's Digest story, which I think is a little suspect, but nonetheless, I too. Carolyn, like you, I thought this was a song about Vietnam. I thought this was a soldier coming home from Vietnam,

Michelle Newman 1:13:27

if someone's away, like in a war, or, you know, mostly war, right? If they're in the military, if you have a family member, it just becomes a yellow ribbon thing.

Kristin Nilsen 1:13:37

So this is in folklore. It goes all the way back to the Civil War, and it started to be repurposed after this song. It's like this song sort of revived the use of the Yellow Ribbon, and then it was revived again in 1979 during the Iran hostage crisis. And they started, people started putting yellow ribbons outside their houses, around trees. Remember their houses. Remember to bring the hostages home. And then the hostages did come home. Five days after the hostages did come home was the Super Bowl, and they wrapped a ginormous yellow ribbon around the stadium of the Super Bowl. Ah, that's amazing. I know. Isn't that great story,

Carolyn Cochrane 1:14:12

yeah, but can I just again these story songs? I just want to say that I had a visual. Okay, so the guys in my story, he's in his like, army fatigues or whatever, and they kind of turn the corner, and I can't believe I see 100 yellow ribbons. I envision an entire block, a whole neighborhood, and they all had ribbons around their trees. And now

Kristin Nilsen 1:14:36

I'm very Yeah, I guess I just

Carolyn Cochrane 1:14:38

didn't think of that part. I just thought everyone was so excited that it wasn't just his girlfriend who had the one. It was 100 yellow

Kristin Nilsen 1:14:45

ribbons like no, no. Carolyn, this is a ribbon on

Carolyn Cochrane 1:14:48

everything I'm gonna leave now.

Kristin Nilsen 1:14:52

You have to rearrange the story in your brain. And this is that she loved him so much that she tied 100 yellow ribbons on every. Ranch of that old oak tree to tell him, Yes, I still love you and you can come home. Oh, well, that's sweet too. I know I love

Carolyn Cochrane 1:15:07

it, like my story too.

Michelle Newman 1:15:08

I hope it's because he didn't commit, like, a really heinous crime. Yeah, he's not a murderer. Or he, like, had to go, like, Rob's get some bread because they were hungry or something.

Kristin Nilsen 1:15:22

He needed medicine. He needed medicine for his sick children, and so he had to, that's what we're going to go with,

Carolyn Cochrane 1:15:28

right? When you said it was a convict coming home, and in my mind, I'm still thinking, there are a hundreds on everyone, like, all over the neighborhood. And I thought, well, they must have really liked that guy. Was like, you know it was, what do I want to say? He was incorrectly incarcerated, unjustly, and everyone was so excited, but I wasn't even listening to you after you said, yeah, you my story was just like, I thought, Well, gosh, they must really love him, because he committed a crime, but they won't.

Michelle Newman 1:16:01

Yellow ribbons.

Kristin Nilsen 1:16:02

To me, this was like the ultimate, this was the ultimate love story, because even though somebody had done something wrong, she loved him no matter what, which was, I remember asking my mom, because she, you know, your mother ever says, I love you no matter what. And I would test her be like, well, what if I did this? What if I did this? And I remember one time asked her, What if I went to jail? And she said, Yes, I would still love you. And I was like,

Michelle Newman 1:16:24

Really, what if I murdered? Murder.

Kristin Nilsen 1:16:28

Yeah, it was amazing. So this song was first offered. This is so funny. The song was first offered to Ringo Starr, and he turned it down. And his people mean, yeah, it doesn't work. No, it's a no.

Michelle Newman 1:16:41

It's got to be kind of that Boppy. Yeah, both

Kristin Nilsen 1:16:44

Boppy, but also it has to have a level of sincerity. Whereas I think Ringo Starr was now in sort of a farcical is the wrong is the wrong word. But when I think about photograph and those kind of songs, he was a little more in the cheeky he was in the cheeky realm. That's it, not farcical, but cheeky. And so he might have made a mockery of this song, which really has a very serious tone to it. And his people, Ringo people, wrote back to the songwriters, and they said, You should be ashamed of yourselves for writing something so stupid and ridiculous. Wow, I know it's on them harsh. Yeah. Hashtag, biggest selling song of 1973 Yeah, so joke's on you. Ringo stars people. I don't blame Ringo for that, and this song is also responsible for giving us the Tony Orlando and Don rainbow Hour, which was their variety show. I know that show isn't that great, because Tony Orlando and Don performed this song on the 1974 Grammys, and Fred Silverman, the head of CBS, saw them, and he was like, give them a show right now. And so they became the replacement show for Sonny and Cher.

Michelle Newman 1:17:49

I love that, you know what? If I can find that clip, we'll put that in the Weekly Reader this week. That clip of them singing, yes, that song, it's iconic. Yeah. I

Kristin Nilsen 1:18:00

really want to see now, Carolyn, when you listen to it again, to see if you if you cry, was this a crying song? He was not

Carolyn Cochrane 1:18:07

emotional. Yeah. Look, everyone, not just his girlfriend, is happy to see him, the whole damn neighborhood. It

Michelle Newman 1:18:13

was just a happy song, emotional like I didn't cry, but I sang it all the time. I'm

Speaker 7 1:18:18

getting goosebumps because of the whole damn bus cheering. Now the whole damn bus is cheering, and I can't believe, okay, then my bro closes off.

Carolyn Cochrane 1:18:28

Yeah, I'm still just, I have to listen to it again, because I'm still a little dumbfounded and gobsmacked. That is not what I thought it was. Because I just understand, like that many people would be excited if he was a convict like and

Kristin Nilsen 1:18:43

these are, this is so interesting because these are conversations that we had as children with our grown ups that we don't they're we don't, because we don't have songs like this anymore. We don't have these conversations. But when I found out that he was in jail and not a soldier coming home, it again. You. This is a recurring concept. It was my cool aunt who explained it to me, and I did question her, like, so there. So this is happy, like he was in jail, but she's happy to have him. And my aunt was like, yes, because just because he did something wrong doesn't mean he's always a bad person. It was for a child. This is stuff to chew on, yeah. Well, I

Carolyn Cochrane 1:19:19

think that was the common theme with all of these songs that we've talked about is that our families had a part in how we saw them in our heads. So it's just my mom, I'm sure, who told me this is a guy coming home from the war, and everyone's so excited. And, you know, I fought Lillian for

Kristin Nilsen 1:19:37

and she and she was probably one of many who thought that because of what was happening in our culture in 1973 there were people going to Vietnam and not coming home. Yeah,

Carolyn Cochrane 1:19:47

but they caught these songs caused us to ask questions. That's right, things that you know, we couldn't quite make sense of in our heads. And these adults

Unknown Speaker 1:19:59

explained, she. It.

Kristin Nilsen 1:20:14

I love this episode so much because it's like combining my two favorite things. It's like book club for music lovers, book Love for songs, right? What if we did that? What if we had book club for songs?

Carolyn Cochrane 1:20:26

Yes, yes, yes, yeah, all over that. I think we're gonna do that. Okay,

Kristin Nilsen 1:20:30

Happy Hour zoom for all you Bicentennial Patreon members, oh my god, let's do it. Yeah? Don't you think

Michelle Newman 1:20:34

so? Because the book club idea and what you just said is so great, because the reason they have lasted in our bodies for 50 years is because they were like little stories, little three minute stories that we loved. I mean, we don't forget the books we read back then that we loved, right? So that's what these are. They're stories. They are story songs. Oh, wait, that's what this episode,

Kristin Nilsen 1:21:02

these songs and this discussion, it just, it just shows how varied and captivating the culture of our childhood was. How lucky were we to have these songs, this, this phenomenon, whether it was Cher dancing for the money they'd throw, or the hashtag too soon, drama of an actual shipwreck we had. We had no shortage of memories made from these songs, and here we are, 50 years later, and we're talking about the feelings we had every time these songs came on the radio. And I'm sorry, I just don't think you're ever going to find that kind of longevity with a Tiktok video. Thank you so much, and we will see you next time. Okay,

Michelle Newman 1:21:41

and we'd love to give a special thank you, a shout out, big Virtual hug, confetti cannon, all the things for some of our Patreon supporters. We love all of our Patreon supporters, but at the end of every episode, we like to recognize a group of them by name. And today we're saying thank you to Collette, Kelly, Sharon, Susan, Barbara, Helene, Christina, Heather, Jill, Elizabeth, Claire, Lance, Cheryl. Elizabeth, again. Thank you so much. We do have people that a lot of people with the same names. We're not just right, just doubling them

Carolyn Cochrane 1:22:15

up, and we're Gen X. That just seemed like there were Julie

Kristin Nilsen 1:22:18

and Julie and Julie and, yeah, exactly, exactly. And

Carolyn Cochrane 1:22:22

if you enjoyed this episode, please consider leaving a review right now. Wherever you listen, it's not just for our self esteem. It really, truly helps other listeners find

Kristin Nilsen 1:22:31

us in the meantime, let's raise our glasses for a toast, courtesy of the cast of Three's Company, two good times,

Carolyn Cochrane 1:22:38

two Happy Days to Little House on the Prairie. Cheers, cheers,

Kristin Nilsen 1:22:42

everybody. The information, opinions and comments expressed on the pop culture Preservation Society podcast belongs solely to Carolyn the crushologist and hello Newman, and are in no way representative of our employers or affiliates. And though we truly believe we are always right, there is always a first time the PCPs is written, produced and recorded in Minneapolis, Minnesota, home of the fictional wjm studios and our beloved Mary Richards, Nano. Nano, keep on trucking and May the Force Be With You. You.

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