Stars’ Second Acts
Carolyn Cochrane 0:00
He sells them, so I will put a link in our show notes with how you can order Christopher's Wood Creation.
Speaker 1 0:12
Hello, there's a song that we're singing. Come on, get happy. This one
Michelle Newman 0:28
Welcome to the Pop Culture Preservation Society, the podcast for people born in the big wheel generation who learned geography from Rand McNally road atlases.
Kristin Nilsen 0:39
We believe our Gen X childhoods gave us unforgettable songs, stories, characters, and images, and if we don't talk about them, they'll disappear like Marshall Will and Holly on a routine expedition.
Carolyn Cochrane 0:50
And today we'll be celebrating the art of the second act, because apparently teen idols grow up to become painters and farmers and writers and orchestral composers. I'm Carolyn, I'm Kristen,
Michelle Newman 1:02
and I'm Michelle, and we are your pop culture preservationists.
Speaker 2 1:06
There's gonna have to be a different man now.
Carolyn Cochrane 1:18
So, what happens when those celebrities we idolize growing up grow up themselves and begin leaning into their passions. What kind of second acts do they create for themselves? Well, today we're going to talk about some of those stars and some of those second acts that they've created. There's kind of a creative freedom that they're leaning into that comes later in life. And then you'll get to hear our great conversation with Greg Evagin, who is definitely embracing his second act. Perhaps there's no better example of this than our friend and first crush, Sean Cassidy. In our conversations with him, we learn about his journey from performer to writer, producer to songwriter and performer again. His latest creative project has found him writing music and performing again, something he hadn't done since 1980 at the peak of his teen idol stardom, but you could tell just by talking with him how much being able to lean into this creative freedom was filling his soul. Don't you guys agree?
Kristin Nilsen 2:16
Yeah, even creative freedom is that, like, that's the key term, right? Because it could be that the reason a second act is necessary is because your first act there wasn't freedom, freedom, and you really, when you talk to Sean Cassidy, you really get that feeling that this was something that was sort of expected of him, and he was young, and so he was taking people's advice, and he didn't have tons of control, right, so he left it all behind,
Michelle Newman 2:39
he always, you know, he was like writer first, they say, like dancer first, or whatever, he was, that's what his true passion was, was to be a writer, and my goodness, for, you know, how many decades did he do that so well,
Kristin Nilsen 2:54
like 40 years, so much so that
Michelle Newman 2:57
even his kids, that's what they thought dad did, like they didn't think dad was a singer and a teen idol and an actor, even really. It was more dad's a writer. Dad writes TV shows.
Kristin Nilsen 3:08
Don't have any knowledge of him as being in front of the camera or singing at the Grammys or being on an album cover. They only know him as a writer,
Speaker 1 3:17
right.
Carolyn Cochrane 3:17
And what I love is almost this full circle moment of he is performing again, and he's doing it for himself, and you know, for the right reasons, and for us. I mean, again, we've our conversations with him and listeners. If you have not already heard those, please go back and listen to those episodes, because you can hear in his voice and his excitement about what he is doing right now, going on the road, performing songs that he is writing again now, and, and how that is filling his soul, and it's just really inspiring to listen to as a
Kristin Nilsen 3:51
grown-up. He's a grown-up. Well, and I
Michelle Newman 3:53
feel like it's such a good illustration of all of us when we get to be a certain age.
Carolyn Cochrane 3:58
Yeah, and that's where Gen X is right now, I mean, we do have this freedom that we can embrace, and also, you know, we don't give as many F's as we did before, so it's like, if I want to become, you know, whatever, a potter or a, I don't know, cobbler, if that's what I want to do
Kristin Nilsen 4:18
maker,
Carolyn Cochrane 4:18
I'm gonna be a shoemaker,
Kristin Nilsen 4:21
but that's a really good point, Carolyn, because I think we've gotten to the point in our career as many of us, like we've done this for so long now that we're no longer climbing or scrapping or wanting or desiring, we either had it or we missed the boat, and so it's fine, it's fine, like, let's, can we make room for something else to go along with paying the bills, I think one of the first times we as children noticed that a celebrity might become something other than a celebrity was Shirley Temple. A lot of us had fascinations with Shirley Temple when we were kids, because she was a kid and she was just so cute, you just wanted to squeeze her with your little hands till she popped. Wouldn't just
Carolyn Cochrane 5:01
be her,
Kristin Nilsen 5:02
of course. It
Carolyn Cochrane 5:04
wasn't Heidi one of those, at least for me, just those films that the teachers would bring out in school, like you would just that in the Red Balloon movie, you know, that those were like the go-tos when they needed an hour and a half of no kids bothering them, whatever, report card time, and you'd sit on the floor in the dark, and someone would scratch your back. We all
Michelle Newman 5:28
braided each other's hands. Yeah, I loved it when I was the first person in that, either the back scratching chain or the hair playing with chain, because if you're the first person, you don't have to do anybody else's. The worst is, if you're the last person. This,
Kristin Nilsen 5:43
by the way, is an episode. This, the movies we shot at the end of the year, right, or right before winter break, like that's that's an episode. It's coming, people. Yeah, so Heidi was definitely one of.. Heidi was big, a little princess was another. She's like Papa. We loved her. She was the biggest box office draw between 1934 and 1938 but here we are in the 70s and the 80s wanting to be Shirley Temple, or squeeze a little Shirley Temple. And you have to wonder, like, what was it that brought her into our consciousness? Maybe it was a Saturday afternoon black and white movie, maybe it was Heidi, maybe it was Little Princess. For those of us who are old enough to stay up for Saturday Night Live, it might have been Lorraine Newman who did a spot on impression of Shirley Temple. There was also an advertisement on TV for a Shirley Temple doll. Do you remember this? Yep. Yes, it was like a stand-up doll. It wasn't one that you cuddled, it was one that stood up on a stand. It was like a collector's item. I definitely had that. I think it was a lot of Shirley Temple stuff that got advertised, actually,
Michelle Newman 6:49
for sure. And for me, my gateway for Shirley Temple was my mom, because my mom, who was born in 1943 loved Shirley Temple as a child, loved, like she wanted to be Shirley Temple, too, and she just wanted to, and so my mom was telling us all about Shirley Temple.
Kristin Nilsen 7:07
I knew a lot about Shirley Temple because of my very dangerous bike rides to the public library to check out biographies. Yes, everybody knows about now. Everybody knows if you've been listening for a while, and also because my grandpa, who worked for Warner Brothers, had worked with her, so he liked Tony Shirley Temple stories, and he loved her. He thought she was a little genius, and he said you could show her, like, for her choreography. All you used to do is show it to her one time, and she would have it. She didn't need to, like, go into the studio, she didn't need to, she just had it. She was like a choreographic genius. Is there, like, is there a dance version of perfect pitch? Because that's what Shirley Temple had.
Michelle Newman 7:45
Yeah,
Kristin Nilsen 7:46
so I knew that Shirley said, because I knew about Shirley Temple, I knew that she had grown up to be an ambassador, and that was so intriguing, but she's not. That's how
Michelle Newman 7:55
I learned what an ambassador was. So many people, for sure. Yes,
Kristin Nilsen 7:59
you're like, what the age, but what was
Carolyn Cochrane 8:02
then? You learn her name,
Kristin Nilsen 8:03
Shirley Temple Black. Black, that's right. You're like, she has a different name, Shirley Temple Black. But the story is so much better than that. Yes, she was an ambassador. So, this is, but this is how this all happened. And there was more, you guys. There was more, and I can't believe we didn't know this. So, when she grew up, and she left show business behind. She got involved in the Junior League, and that led to her involvement in Republican politics. Of course, the Republican Party then was a lot different than now, right? And in 1967 she took a gigantic leap, and she ran for a congressional seat in her district. She did not win, but that led to her being tapped to represent the United States at a session of the United Nations General Assembly, that's kind of a big deal. Yes, that's kind of big. And then Henry Kissinger is at a party and he's eavesdropping on Shirley Temple, who is now Shirley Temple Black, and he's eavesdropping her talking to a party guest about Southwest Africa, and he's like, "Do you want to be an ambassador? That's how this happened. He couldn't. He was so surprised that she knew so much about it. Nobody knew anything about it, and so he very quickly realized that she had a special gift. And so, under President Gerald Ford, she became the ambassador to Ghana, a job she did so well that then she became the State Department's chief of protocol. She was the first and only, I think, even to this day, the only female to ever hold that position. And what that is, it sounds really weird, but what it is, is that she was the person she reported directly to the Secretary of State to Henry Kissinger, and she would prep the President and all of the dignitaries on the various protocol when meeting with foreign dignitaries, that was her job. Wow, so then she was famously snubbed by Ronald Reagan. Hmm, interesting. Hollywood, Hollywood, right?
Michelle Newman 10:00
He wanted to be the only act, famous actor, probably in that administration, too.
Kristin Nilsen 10:05
Cute, she was, she was gonna get all of the airtime, but then George H.W. Bush was like, "Hey, now let's bring her back, and he appointed her to be the ambassador to Czechoslovakia, and she was there when the Soviet tanks rolled into town to do whatever history lesson, history lesson, history lesson. Yeah, that's a good way to say, yeah. So she, she escaped. She had to escape to the roof of a hotel while the tanks were rolling into town, and she stood on that roof, and she, she watched in horror as people, like citizens in the street, were being gunned down.
Michelle Newman 10:40
Oh, this is
Kristin Nilsen 10:42
Shirley Temple. Yes, little animal crackers in my soup is watching people, little
Michelle Newman 10:47
good ship lollipops. But this is
Kristin Nilsen 10:48
the biggest, you guys. This, I can't believe we didn't know this. She was almost named Gerald Ford's running mate. She was going to be the vice presidential candidate for the 1976 campaign, no joke. So, when you should see their faces right now, they're like not making any noise, but their mouths are open, their mouths are open. So, he's going to make the announcement, and she's called to this hotel, where the announcement is being made, and she and her husband are put up in a hotel room, and then a White House telephone is installed in her room, and she knows, like, she knows how this goes. She's been in politics for a long time now, and there's been talk of her being named the running mate, and so she's like, "This is it, this is it, you guys, I'm gonna be the first female vice presidential candidate in history. About an hour later, the same people who installed the White House phone come in, and they uninstall the phone, and that's when she knew that Bob Dole had been named his running mate.
Carolyn Cochrane 11:45
I am amazed on so many different levels, one, that it was the Republican Party that would have had the first woman,
Kristin Nilsen 11:53
yeah,
Carolyn Cochrane 11:53
running mate person, yeah, and that it was Shirley Temple. There's wow, just all I gotta say.
Kristin Nilsen 12:02
I know, because
Carolyn Cochrane 12:03
talk about.. I mean, that's not even.. I don't even know what that is, full circle or not. She dumbfounded, she blew up that circle. Yes, she did.
Kristin Nilsen 12:11
No more tap dancing for Shirley Temple, like she was world affairs.
Carolyn Cochrane 12:15
Well, thank you, Shirley Temple Black, because I, you know, I remember that when we were getting ready to do this episode, and Kristen said, I know how I'm doing, I'm going to talk about Shirley Temple, and I thought, yes, we all remember when our parents told us, well, she's an ambassador, and also thinking I hadn't seen her between, you know, Heidi and when she's on the TV, and I remember thinking that's what she looks like now, like she was a grown-up lady. Yes, she was. Yeah, and smart,
Kristin Nilsen 12:45
yeah. And it, it was at the time, it was this sort of like mind meld of this little curly haired girl doing these funny tap dances, and this very grown-up lady doing very adult things. Lolly pop it. It's a sweet trip to a candy shop where bon bons play almost on the beach. Okay,
Michelle Newman 13:11
if I had to ask you guys, who is probably one of the most quintessential 1980s cinematic heartthrobs,
Speaker 1 13:21
yeah.
Michelle Newman 13:22
Who would you say character name would be Jake
Kristin Nilsen 13:25
Ryan? Jake Ryan, this person, like, he's not somebody that's in our homes for hours and hours, and fleeting,
Michelle Newman 13:34
yeah, so fleeting. But I mean, the image of him leaning against the car and Porsche, and just the kiss over the birthday cake, I mean, all of it, yeah, and that's Jake Ryan, of course, played by Michael Shuffling, and he 16
Kristin Nilsen 13:50
candles in
Michelle Newman 13:51
16 candles, of course, yeah, and if we need to say that to you, this might not be the podcast for you, as much as we hate to say carry on, we might mean to say just carry on. So, Schling basically came to his just like the heartthrob status, his prominence for that role. He was 23 years old. He appeared in eight additional films after 16 candles. I knew of a couple of them, and I probably know of more. I probably know this,
Speaker 1 14:27
but when
Michelle Newman 14:28
I think of Michael Schoffling, I just think of 16 candles. But I mean, include some of those would have been Vision Quest, Mermaids, Let's Get Harry, Wild Hearts Can't Be Broken, but you know, he basically found Hollywood pretty lacking personally for personal fulfillment. He wanted a more stable environment to raise his family, so he left the acting world entirely in 1991 That's not that much longer, right? That's a pretty short career. He moved to. Really quiet town in Pennsylvania. I will not disclose it. Will not disclose it, because we are going to respect his privacy
Kristin Nilsen 15:10
after Carolyn, but
Michelle Newman 15:11
yeah, but he moved there to pursue his true passion, handcrafted woodworking, and you guys, he basically runs a really successful custom furniture shop, and his furniture he creates is gorgeous. It's beautiful. Carolyn, you should go visit him, and you should get like a lovely rocker for your future grandchildren to rock your future grandchildren. And then you can tell him the story. Yes, guess who made this granny's rocker? Let me tell you the story of Jake Ryan. It
Kristin Nilsen 15:45
wasn't just that he was so beautiful, it was that his character was so coveted.
Michelle Newman 15:52
Yeah, and just the standing there, and listen, we all know this, we all feel the same way, but just there's nothing like the hands in the pockets and the feet cross and the sweater vest
Kristin Nilsen 16:06
shoes, and you have little boat shoes on.
Michelle Newman 16:08
You guys know how all of my crushes were dark. I mean, you guys know he, he is, he fits the bill for me, like all my crushes sort of looked like Michael checking
Kristin Nilsen 16:18
all that, all those boxes.
Carolyn Cochrane 16:20
Well, I got to tell you, you know what, Michael is not the only woodworker amongst our teen idols that grow up and have other passions. Christopher Atkins is a happy little player
Kristin Nilsen 16:33
of wood,
Michelle Newman 16:36
we know the
Kristin Nilsen 16:42
player of wood. my
Carolyn Cochrane 16:44
goodness, he carves these beautiful bowls from, of all things, driftwood. Oh, I can see that. Yeah, is it softer? Probably. Yes, but I'm like, I'm loving the fact that when we, when I think of Christopher Atkins, I immediately think of the beach, right? I've got paradise in my head. I've got, he's
Kristin Nilsen 17:06
dragging all the wood in his little loincloth, but he
Michelle Newman 17:11
can only draw. He can only drag it with one hand, because his other hand has his big fishing spear. Yes, right. So he's, he's dragging, and he's his little loincloth. Well, no, it's probably kind of big. Like
Carolyn Cochrane 17:23
images of these, especially these bowls that he creates that are gorgeous. He sells them. So I will put a link in our show notes with how you can order Christopher's wood wood creation. But anyway, I just thought that that was really cool, and it's really cool art. He's very talented, let's just say that
Kristin Nilsen 17:46
excited. Okay, can we talk about my newest crush?
Carolyn Cochrane 17:49
Yes, I'm
Kristin Nilsen 17:50
kind of a late bloomer on this one. I'm late to the party on this one. Jonathan Knight from New Kids on the Block, I was called the reluctant new kid, but I was too old for new kids on the block. I was in my 20s, but I recently had the opportunity to reengage with the reluctant new kid. So, Jonathan Knight was the one. He left the band first. He kind of broke the band up in 1990 Not sure again, Google it. He was never as comfortable being a heartthrob as the other new kids were, but the band has since come back together, and they have an incredible career touring for, like, screaming, screaming middle-aged women. They are beloved, and John seems really happy, but the reason he might be happier now is because his true passion has really been unleashed, and he can do this true passion alongside touring with the new kids, so this all speaks to, you know, you got to pay the bills, and then make room for what makes you happy. So, when he first left the band in 1994 he moved to Essex, Massachusetts, which is a small coastal village in Massachusetts with lots of beautiful farmhouses, hundreds of years old. He went into real estate, he bought a farm. He married his longtime partner, Harley Rodriguez, and he took his construction skills, and he focused on saving and restoring all of these beautiful farmhouses, which led to one of my favorite shows, TV shows of the last five years, HGTV's Farmhouse fixer, aka farmhouse fixer, because he still has - he's very much a hometown boy, and he still has this thick Boston accent. So, how can I call it farmhouse
Michelle Newman 19:30
farmhouse?
Kristin Nilsen 19:31
So, he partnered up with interior designer Christina Creston to restore these farmhouses in these little Massachusetts towns. None of them are very far from his own farm, so he can go home at night and spend time on his farm with all of his animals. He's a total animal daddy. He and every client on the show, he gets, they get a special gift from John. Sometimes it might be a donkey, or maybe a bunny hutch, or a field full of goats to mow. Oh, the lawn, he's such an animal guy, and Farmhouse Fixa was so popular that it led to a spin-off called Camp Revamp, when he and Harley bought, like, a dilapidated camp, that's New England talk for cabin, and he restored it into a lakeside resort with it's no, it's not open yet, it's not open, people, because it's not done, but the show, but the show is done. They restored it into like a lakeside resort with lots of little cabins that will eventually be for rent, and this show, I mean, if you didn't already love John, you're gonna love him even more, because this show, Camp Revamp, includes a lot more of his family, including his little mom, Marlene, I think it's Marlene, his little mom, his sisters are in the show, and even his new kid brother, Jordan, Jordan Knight, is on camp revamp, helping him decorate these cabins. It's really funny. It's so homey, it's so full of heart. He's a huge crier, he cries in every show, and it's so full of all the people that he loves. It's really hard not to love it, and now John is all over HGTV, and he really wants to bring back gardening shows. You've noticed gardening shows have kind of left HGTV, Home and Garden TV, where's the garden part? So he wants to bring that back, because he's a farmer, he's a farmer.
Michelle Newman 21:16
I was about to say no, he's not, he's a farmer,
Kristin Nilsen 21:18
and listen to this quote, it's like the least Hollywood thing that you've ever heard in your whole life. This is from Jonathan Knight. He said it's hard when you're on tour because we leave in April and I don't get back until late July, so I miss the whole growing season.
Michelle Newman 21:33
Oh, that stinks for him. I
Kristin Nilsen 21:35
know, but he's able to live his life in the way that he wants. He's got a very, very full life, and he's being elevated now for who he really is. I'm raising my.. you can't see me off camera, but I'm raising my hand way up here, like
Michelle Newman 21:48
also he's.. he's fulfilled because he's living his life honestly and truthfully. When he was back in the 90s with new kids, he couldn't probably.. well, he wasn't out, was no.. he
Kristin Nilsen 21:59
was not in fact outed by.. he was not, he did not out himself, he was outed by an old boyfriend, which is very unfair. Yeah, that's
Michelle Newman 22:06
tragic. Yeah, but I was just gonna say, now he's living, he's living so authentically, not just by what he's following his passions, but just who he is, so he can go shake his booty on stage with just so much more freedom, right, and they
Kristin Nilsen 22:24
love him, even though he's a man, and he died for their team.
Michelle Newman 22:27
Well, and if they don't carry on, yes,
Kristin Nilsen 22:30
carry, you get to that. You see a lot of Harley in in camp revamp, so you get to see their relationship, and it's very heartwarming, you
Michelle Newman 22:44
Okay, well, I asked you just a bit ago if you had to name who the quintessential 1980s cinematic heartthrob was, like male who comes to mind when we think of an absolute definitive it girl of the 1980s
Kristin Nilsen 22:59
Oh, okay, this is a very good comparison. Are you talking about Phoebe Cates? I am talking about Phoebe Cates. I mean, she's a female. She is
Michelle Newman 23:08
such a Jake Wright. Yeah, yeah, I mean, just as much as I'm like, oh, remember his sweater vest and his jeans, all every, you know, everyone who loved her is saying, remember the red swimsuit or the lack of the red swimsuit, remember the red swimsuit top, or not the red swimsuit. The
Kristin Nilsen 23:24
waitress uniform is memory, so cute. Yeah.
Michelle Newman 23:27
Well, and you know, for all of us, I mean, it's everything from the covers of 17 magazine to Fast Times, and then Gremlins. Obviously, she was also a big deal in Gremlins, but we all know she's been married to Kevin Klein. We know that that is a Hollywood couple that we all knew of in 1989 and it was a big deal. But what I did not know is that in 1983 she auditioned for a role in The Big Chill, and it's the role that ultimately went to Meg Tilly.
Kristin Nilsen 23:56
Oh, I just had goosebumps.
Michelle Newman 23:57
Yeah, is that where they met? So that's when she met him. Yep, that's when she met him. They were both dating other people at the time, but two years later, so two years after that audition in 1985 they became romantically involved. Yeah, so she changed her name to Phoebe Cates Klein. They moved to the Upper East Side in New York. They have two kids, but guess what, she has really stepped away from, you know, acting since marrying. She really just wanted to focus on her family. And in 2005 she opened a little boutique. It's on Madison Avenue to this day. It's called Blue Tree. It's very upscale. I mean, it's on Madison Avenue,
Kristin Nilsen 24:39
right
Michelle Newman 24:40
on the Upper East Side, but it's, it sells clothing, jewelry, antiques, home goods, decor. I checked out their website, and I was just, it's very eclectic stuff. If you Google it, it says owned by Phoebe Cates Klein,
Kristin Nilsen 24:52
and she opened it in 2005 and it's 2005 Yeah, that's significant. That is, that's cute,
Michelle Newman 24:59
and you can. Get a little picture of it, so yeah, so
Kristin Nilsen 25:01
that's not somebody with a lark, like no, this is somebody who's really dedicated herself to
Carolyn Cochrane 25:08
it, and I think Michelle, you could probably attest to the fact, because you saw this firsthand, there is somebody that pivoted, and this would be Andrew McCarthy, and he is a writer, and as you might recall from a few episodes ago, Michelle saw Andrew McCarthy at a book signing with his most recent book that was out, and I loved how you said he could have stood up there and talked forever, like,
Michelle Newman 25:32
oh, he was on,
Carolyn Cochrane 25:33
yeah, so you saw really, I think, in real time, somebody that is so excited about this creativity that they have, this for us, might we might think of it as a second act, because, of course, we loved him back in the 80s in his film, you know, his film characters, but he is a writer, he's won, as we said before, travel award or travel writing awards, he's a memoirist, and he loves it, it sounds like when you saw Michelle, he was exuding joy.
Michelle Newman 26:04
Oh yeah, and he wrote for - he was worked for, like, National Geographic for years and years, and travel writing is his true passion, and traveling, and traveling.
Carolyn Cochrane 26:12
I just think that was so cool that you got to see him in real time, being excited. Being true self, and you guys, you know how we talk about the fact that we might be witches. Yeah, well, there's no mind about it. Yeah, oh my gosh, you guys. So, listeners, that just this morning, while I was preparing for this episode, I came across a post on Instagram, Matt Dylan's face, all cutie patootie. He's a cutie patootie, he looks grown up, yeah. And if you guys remember, we're talking Matt Dillon from Little Darlings, from The Outsiders, all those Rumble
Kristin Nilsen 26:51
Fish,
Carolyn Cochrane 26:51
yes, yes, gosh, he was Gen X Films to the hilt. Anyway, you guys, he is also a painter, and he is having his first gallery show open in the next few weeks, maybe. I have, I didn't read the whole article about it, but he has been painting for the last several decades, but had no, like, official representation. It was kind of just what he did during the lulls of when he was maybe filming something, or just in between projects, and he's very articulate about art. There's a video where they ask him, Who are his artistic influences, and it's over my head. But suffice it to say, he is so happy and creative and leaning into this, and he's having a gallery show. I mean, they just don't do that for any Tom, Dick, or Harry, like you have to be good. It doesn't matter what your past was. It's kind of like, okay, you have to be pretty talented to make this happen, and for you to be in a gallery.
Kristin Nilsen 27:52
And I loved his pieces. I thought they were really interesting. I really, really liked it. You know, abstract art like that is always.. you never know how you're going to respond to it, and I really liked it.
Michelle Newman 28:02
Well, think about who we just recently talked to, Eve Plum.
Kristin Nilsen 28:05
Yes, you know, she's
Michelle Newman 28:06
had many gallery shows, she sells her art, and she also has gotten into design. Her true passion is art,
Carolyn Cochrane 28:12
and you could even see that when we talked to her, she just kind of lit up. I just felt like her almost lighter and stuff in our conversation about her art, and she was really touched that we knew about it, and wanted to talk about it with her. So, yeah, I think that these, again, these celebrities who were maybe pigeonholed into a certain, a certain way for us to think about them, really appreciate when we, especially the three of us as interviewers, ask them about these other parts of their lives, especially their creative lives, and listeners, you get to hear that firsthand in just a few minutes, because we had the opportunity to chat with our friend Greg Avengan. Okay, and he is so much more than BJ and the Bear and my two dads. Am I right, ladies?
Kristin Nilsen 29:00
It's incredible. This is think of how long ago BJ and the Bear was. Okay, that was almost 50 years ago, and we're talking to him today, not about what happened 50 years ago, but what is next on the horizon for him, and this amazing thing that he's created now, right now, right?
Michelle Newman 29:20
He's able to celebrate this at age 72 It's
Kristin Nilsen 29:23
amazing, it's amazing,
Carolyn Cochrane 29:24
and it's a passion too that he's had from when he was a child. So he never really gave up on this dream, but you know, the age that he is now, and everything, it just gave him the opportunity to say, I want to do this thing that I've been thinking about for a really long time, and that thing, ladies and gentlemen, would be an album that he has coming out, and you'll hear all about it in our conversation, and it's not just any old music. Okay, I mean, we're talking the London Royal Philharmonic, yes. So we hope you enjoy this conversation that we had with the. Multi-talented Greg Abigayn.
Kristin Nilsen 30:02
Here's somebody we knew from one of our favorite TV shows growing up. We saw him in Dynamite magazine, we saw him on every after-school talk show, but little did we know that he was a musician first. And despite the literally hundreds of TV and film credits to his name between the 1970s and now, today he's here to celebrate what feels to me like a crowning achievement. Greg Evagin, star of BJ and the Bear and My Two Dads, and hundreds of other films and TV appearances, has released a new album of his original compositions, recorded with London's legendary Royal Philharmonic Orchestra, called simply Greg Evigin and the London Royal Philharmonic Orchestra, and he is here to tell us about it today. Greg Evigin, thank you so much for being here today. And welcome to the Pop Culture Preservation Society.
Speaker 3 30:52
Thank you. Thanks for that great introduction. That's great,
Kristin Nilsen 30:56
that's you, man. I didn't do that yet. This is not the first time, though, we've spoken with you. We have a great episode from 2023 where you sort of hinted about this project that was coming, and here we are, three and a half years later, and you've really done it. So, congratulations, that's such good news. And we want to make sure that everybody listening will have access to it, so they can hear it in full, and we'll talk about that in a little bit, but I just wanted to tell you how I felt about it when I was listening to it. It was quite a reprieve to everything that is thrown to me by my various platforms. It was a lovely moment for more for me to just be in the moment and be still and appreciate the sounds that were flowing into my ears. It felt like something I felt like I should be in the tub. I really felt like that's a
Speaker 3 31:49
first man in the tub tapes. Yeah,
Kristin Nilsen 31:55
I really, really appreciate it. It was beautiful. This is beautiful music.
Michelle Newman 31:59
Yes, it's truly. it's soaring. Listeners, these, these tracks fill the room. That's how I felt about it when I was listening to it. And I have to say that the last track, it's called Conquering the Rainbow, didn't just fill the room for me. I don't know what happened to me, Greg, I got really emotional to it in the tumbling, all the songs like filled my room, but something about Conquering the Rainbow filled me, and then spilled over, like, wow, I got really emotional. So that is credit to you for composing that to elicit that type of a reaction, but it's the whole thing is just very lush and large and beautiful, large
Carolyn Cochrane 32:56
kind of sticking with the bathtub theme. I mean, it kind of did like Calgon take me away. I mean, that's kind of what it did for me, listening, and kind of to the point that Kristen made. We recently recorded a podcast episode just about embracing more analog activities, and just trying to get away from this sense of urgency and rush, rush, rush that life seems to be coming at us. And so your music found me at the perfect time, because it is exactly what I needed to just exhale and sit, and then have that experience that Michelle described, and Kristen described. It's it literally kind of swept me away to somewhere else that I needed to be, and not in this present, just on all the time kind of moment, and so I thank you. It found me, and maybe a lot of your fans from back in the day. It's finding us at a time in our lives where we just want to exhale and be swept away.
Speaker 3 33:53
Yeah, thank you. You guys, that's that's beautiful. I, you know, I mean, it's analog for sure. There's, there's, you know, the whole thing was in fact it was recorded on two inch tape. Anybody who remembers that stuff, wow. So, yeah, I mean, this is this was a long, long drawn out process to get this done. I lost the entire thing in between, and then just imagine having it all done, and I take it to my.. I said, I said to my son, Jason, I said, Jace, don't you think, don't you think there's something missing on the bottom, the bottom end is not there for me. There was no base, so literally I had to go back, get the right machines, transfer the whole thing
Kristin Nilsen 34:31
again,
Speaker 3 34:32
back off of the tape, and then onto onto Pro Tools, and then continue on, and I was pretty discouraged, needless to say, I was pretty discouraged in the middle of that, all that, and let years go by before I said, you know what, you got to finish this, man, it's haunting years went by, yeah, yeah, this was this was a long, long project, so this is
Michelle Newman 34:52
like a labor of love, yeah, it's, I mean, like a labor, and so, so what would you ask. Mate, from the time you started thinking I'm gonna, you know, make do these compositions, and I'd love to get it recorded, and then all of that happened to now, I mean,
Speaker 3 35:12
I want to be honest with you about it, because I think that I think the entire process has been something that I can encourage anybody out there that's listening to say, listen, keep going, no matter what you do, you can get something out there. Yeah, if you really.. and you know, this is unusual because of what happened, but you know, I mean, now I learned so much in the process that I would absolutely be able to do it in, you know, 10 years. No, just testament, like, here
Kristin Nilsen 35:40
you are, and you did it, and so I think that's a really important message to people. There is no deadline for your art. There is no deadline for your creativity. And I think what you
Speaker 3 35:48
described, and what you felt - not to interrupt you, but I just - I want to go with, with what you said, was the way you felt has a lot to do with kind of when you, when you talk analog, I'm really talking analog, I mean, analog to digital, but there is something in the translation that's pretty, that's a warmth that you feel, and I think that's what, yes, you feel some of that warmth when you, when you, when you hear it, because it does translate, you know, you ultimately go to digital, yeah, but that warmth translates from the, from the tape to that's very
Kristin Nilsen 36:21
real, and that does elicit, you know, what you were talking about, Michelle. There are some songs that make you, you have an emotional response, and some you just don't. And I think that that has something to do with it. It really does. Yeah,
Michelle Newman 36:31
it was one of those situations where it just caught me, too. Like, I didn't know what was happening. All of a sudden, I was listening, and then it was just like, like in your throat, and then out your eyes. Yeah, so if you'd like to take us along with you on your press tour,
Carolyn Cochrane 36:52
you said 20 years, but I think a lot of your career could kind of be a testament to synchronicity and serendipity, and that things, even though 20 years seemed like a long time, we weren't around, you know, 20 years ago to help you promote it, we weren't, I wasn't in a place where maybe there are no podcasts, right, you know, that's another thing too
Speaker 3 37:12
that I wanted to mention, is that, like, you're bringing it up, actually, but, but I really don't think I would have had as good an album if I would have done it then, and now I really don't think so. The technology, you know, that I was able to use now just for cross cuts, it cross fades, you know, whatever it is, you know, just to make it, you know, really sound kind of seamless in a way, you know, I feel, but still have the, but but not take away just the, the warmth of it, the way the edges, you know, you don't want to lose all the, there's a few rough edges, it's great, you know, that's what humans do, so that's how humans play, so if you take all that away, then you have maybe just a plain AI-produced type of AI, yeah, there's no,
Kristin Nilsen 37:55
and then you get no emotional reaction to it, yeah, we're not human to human, I want to, I want to let our listeners know. How do you classify this music? Because when I'm listening to it, I'm thinking it's called classical, but then I know that refers to a specific time period, and I'm a dumbass, so I don't know. Like, are you just calling it like instrumental music? What? How do you classify it?
Speaker 3 38:16
I just call it when somebody said, I say, well, it's kind of movie themish, you know that vibe, like a score,
Kristin Nilsen 38:23
like a score, yeah. Okay, if we were to play a little piece for a little clip for our listeners, do you have what, what piece on that album would you like them to hear most, and tell us about it?
Speaker 3 38:34
Well, you know, the one you mentioned, I mean, I like, I mean, I have a little feeling for all of them, sure, but you know, over time, you know, you definitely, you feel your favorites, you know what you think moves you the most, me the most. Conquering the rainbow to me has a special place, because that's why I saved it for less. I wanted to have that, that powerful ending, and but it also takes you through so many changes from the way it starts, like it doesn't go to where you think it's going to go, you know, and and then how it
Michelle Newman 39:06
ends,
Speaker 3 39:06
and then exactly, and then how
Michelle Newman 39:08
it ends, yeah, I can
Kristin Nilsen 39:26
you tell us a little bit of, of, I loved the titles of the pieces. We don't have to go through everyone, but if they're, if there are titles that, that stick out to you that you want to share why you use that title, can, but what does that mean to you? One
Speaker 3 39:38
of them, I think you mentioned it, that was the tears like rain, that was one I wrote when I was 16, so that's one that I had done, but, but it wasn't as developed then, you know what I mean, actually, you know, it matured as time went by, and especially after you, especially after you, you know, it's with the Royal Philharmonic Orchestra, then then you know you have to. Come up to a different level, so, so, but when it comes to the names, I just, after time goes by, I just had kind of a, like, I remember it with tears like rain, it wasn't called that when I was 16, it didn't have any title, you know, but, but sometimes I get overwhelmed myself when I hear things, you know, like when, when you're in the studio, and you hear your, you know, you hear your pieces, your songs come to a point where, where, like a 65 you go from playing the piano to a 65 piece orchestra, and it's overwhelming, right? So, for writers, I know writers, anybody who hears their stuff come to life like that, you know, it's.. it's just.. it's an incredible feeling. So, so I remember, I think I cried tears like rain, and, and, and.. so, you know, that's where that came from. And then you felt like
Michelle Newman 40:58
you conquered the rainbow.
Speaker 3 40:59
I feel like the rainbow. that's like, like, I just saw a guy, I just saw it was like Don Quixote, you know, it was like some guy who's out there conquering the world, and, and, and nobody knew what's at the end, nobody knows what's at the end of that rainbow, because obviously we know that there's probably nothing but vapors of, but you know, I mean, it's like conquering something that doesn't exist, you know, and, and so, in a lot of ways, in the world, we're conquering, we're conquering things that don't exist, we're going after things that don't exist,
Michelle Newman 41:36
it's so interesting to hear that some of these pieces have been in the works since you were a teenager, because you were before, that's before you were an actor, right? You were a musician,
Speaker 3 41:46
yeah. I believe we talked
Michelle Newman 41:48
about your band, and it had all the interesting name, right? I think I asked
Kristin Nilsen 41:53
you about your plums last time. Yeah, that was, that was
Speaker 3 42:01
one of the first bands we had, Royal Plums. Oh my god, were you? I think when I was in that band, I think I was.. geez, I must have been maybe 1213, Oh my god,
Kristin Nilsen 42:14
you.. I mean, this is really the definition of musician first, right? So, this is what we're learning, is that you are a musician first, and so, and you're when you were only 12 years old. How did you end up as an actor? How did that happen? How is it that you know you have this within you, and it be, and it's the focal point of your life. And we're here talking about BJ and the Bear, like, how does that happen?
Speaker 3 42:37
Well, the steps were, I started playing the piano when I was eight. My mom was a great pianist, and she was incredible. So, it was something to watch. You could see, oh, wow, boy, I would love to play like that someday, you know. And she got me into the lessons, so I started studying, but it was classical, so everything was, you know, reading music and learning how to, you know, how to. it's kind of like, you know, Chopin, Beethoven, you know, Gershwin, all those things, all those pose, so two-part inventions, Bach. Then, when I went into, you know, got into the bands, it's like chords, you know, and then in school I had this, I had a drama teacher who was, his name was Pat Arvonia, he's a great guy, and very eclectic guy. He, he, I mean, he went from, he was a the warden at Rahway State Prison, New Jersey, and then, you know, he comes, he's teaching drama in high school. Wow, he was an incredible, incredible teacher, had a lot of, he had a lot of life to give, you know, I was learning, I was getting some of the tools I needed to, but little did I ever know that, you know, my friend Gary Delina, he's a, he's a comedian in New Jersey, been a friend for life. Gary says he sees this article in Variety and audition for Jesus Christ Superstar, and we just got out, we just graduated high school, so I went in, you know, I went in, and I mean it was 15,000 people wrapped around from 51st all the 52nd auditioning
Kristin Nilsen 44:11
like 15,000 people,
Speaker 3 44:12
huge, we thought there wasn't gonna be anybody there because the article was so small, it was an open call, you know, yeah, so, so we went, and pretty much we just got in line. It's like we thought we walked right up to the front door, like, hey, we're here, you know? And I knew every song on that album, I mean, I learned every song, and and we got down to the door, and the, the guy at the door says, Charlie says, he says, pick 12 bars, you know, he's yelling out, "Pick 12 bars. I'm thinking, I'm not picking 12 bars, I'm going in, I'm just going in. And I sang Garden of Gethsemane, and they never stopped me, and I ended up getting the show right. So I got the show right. And what role did
Kristin Nilsen 44:55
you play?
Speaker 3 44:56
I got, I was on the road tour first. So I got the, I was on the original road tour, so we got split into three road
Kristin Nilsen 45:04
tour, like the first group Jesus Christ Superstar, yep, first,
Speaker 3 45:08
so we got, well, we were all cast the same day, the New York production was cast, so he said they put us in three groups, A, B, and C, I was in B, they said Group C, thank you very much for your summer, because we all went through a whole summer of auditions. Oh, wow. And, and then Group B, you are the first Broadway official, Broadway road tour, and Group A, you are the first official Broadway company. So, hey, I was happy to be in any, any place, you know, you're 18 years old. Actually, I was 17. Yeah, I was born in October, so I was, you know, how that you get stuck. Oh, yeah, I'm one of those. Yeah, okay. All right, so you know what it's like keeping up with everybody, and, and, so that was a, you know, that was that was how I mean, I literally got a job as a singer at 17 in Jesus Christ Superstar, and, and I wasn't thinking anything of acting, I was just, you know, just thinking of the singing, and and then came, you know, the mixture of the two when I got into Greece, after that, right after that. So that's, oh my god, I love how Jesus Christ
Michelle Newman 46:18
Superstar was like your gateway, right. believe me, I
Speaker 3 46:23
look back at that, and I think, wow, you know, then things just
Michelle Newman 46:27
started happening, but what I think is cool is that then even, you know, you, you've been able to combine your love of acting and then composing, because you wrote the theme to my two dads, didn't you?
Speaker 3 46:43
I co-wrote with Lenny. You
Michelle Newman 46:45
can count on me. Can you tell I love that show, that was right in my wheelhouse. I loved that show. Who's the actress? Oh my god, remind me, the judge,
Speaker 3 47:10
Florence Stanley.
Michelle Newman 47:11
Oh Lord, she's hilarious. I loved that woman. I loved that show, that was like a not miss show for me. But also, you sang, did you, you sang the theme to BJ in the Bear?
Speaker 3 47:23
I did.
Michelle Newman 47:23
Yeah, correct.
Speaker 3 47:24
Yep.
Speaker 4 47:24
Rolling down to Dallas, off to New Orleans, or who knows,
Michelle Newman 47:39
so that's really cool. So, are those the only two shows that you were able to kind of mesh your two loves? There was one more passion,
Speaker 3 47:47
PS, I Love You with Connie Celica.
Michelle Newman 47:49
I forgot about that show until you just mentioned
Speaker 3 47:52
it. Yeah, it was. I
Michelle Newman 47:54
loved Connie Celica, and she was also.. she was a big Battle of the Network Stars contestant, as were you. She's still a great
Speaker 3 48:01
friend, they, we're good friends of ours. Yeah, wedding next month.
Michelle Newman 48:13
She was married to someone,
Carolyn Cochrane 48:16
was she ever married to Gil Gerard? Or no? Yes. Oh, good. Yeah, good
Michelle Newman 48:21
man. Mary Carolyn, very good.
Speaker 3 48:23
He just passed away too.
Speaker 1 48:25
Oh, that's right. Oh no, that's right.
Michelle Newman 48:26
Oh, that's really sad. I love knowing that you all are still friends. We love that kind of information. That's so fun. You're real people. I
Carolyn Cochrane 48:35
was also thinking, how great, like TV programming was in the 70s and 80s, because we could learn that you were a singer, because you would be on Mike Douglas or Merv Griffin, like we were John Davidson, those you know, daytime kind of talk shows, and then variety shows, which another thing we're missing in life, and just the chance for you to break out, like there were opportunities for actors to maybe show their, you know, musical chops. I mean, when you sing with what do you do in New Year's Eve with Marie Osmond, and I think you tickle the ivories a little bit in that Christmas episode of, you know, the Osmonds Christmas special, but that was just a great time in TV programming and different formats, because we could learn that you actually sang the BJ and the Bear theme song. We might not have known that had we not seen you perform it.
Speaker 3 49:31
Yeah, you know, you know what you bring up that point. There's, you know, that that's what to me is missing with, with everything today, is because people are so, so disjointed in their own groups, now everybody's kind of split, because in those days it was kind of like the zeitgeist of television, was like, like everybody was in the same, we were all in the same room, you know, we had, we had four channels, mostly four, maybe five, and and and so whatever you saw on those, that was everybody's reaction. Reality, that was the reality, you know. And then you had, like, you said, all those other shows, you know, which kind of promoted the show that you were doing on the network, but now it's so dispersed. I remember we had, when we came on the air with these, we had a 47 share, 47 share, you know? If you know anybody out there who thinks about shares, amazing, that knows what that means compared to today. Like, if you get close to a one share now, just close to a one share, you're a hit.
Kristin Nilsen 50:30
Yeah, how could you even measure it today? Like, how could everything you said, everything is so siloed that there's no, there's no one thing that every single person is watching. Last night I was watching a show with my whole family, and within five minutes, my 23 year old was like, I am not watching this with you, my parents, because, yeah, like, there was just something he did not want to see with his parents, and there's so little that we can actually watch together.
Carolyn Cochrane 50:55
For instance, some of those variety specials I was talking about, you were on Debbie Boone's had a variety special that you were on, and you were on with Gene Kelly and Bob Hope. So, my whole family, you know, my parents had some people that they enjoyed and admired, and I had somebody that I liked. We could all sit down, you know. We'd all love Debbie Boone. And then I got my Greg Evigan, they got their Gene Kelly. You got, you know, it was just a time where they almost had to be a little bit more mindful with how they cast some of these specials and shows, because you only have probably one TV in the house, maybe two, if you're lucky, at that point. So, how can we get the whole family to gather, and everybody gets, you know, feel kind of good to see their person on there? So, you're right, it just so much silos us now, that to your point, Kristen, it's you know nothing to keep Liam in the room, so he's out of there. But
Speaker 3 51:47
yeah, do you
Michelle Newman 51:48
still sing?
Speaker 3 51:50
Yeah,
Michelle Newman 51:51
do you have albums like vocal albums?
Speaker 3 51:55
Well, you know, I'm working on that right now. I've written like 2020, songs that I really, really like. So what I'm going to do is, but I wrote them mostly for other people, you know, because you know I got that Megan Trainer. I don't know if you knew about that, but I got, please tell us
Michelle Newman 52:10
about that.
Speaker 3 52:10
Well, that's it's called I Don't Do Maybe. It's it's on her Timeless album, and great song. I don't know, so I brought that to Jason, my son, and Gian Stone, who he's working with, and and then they got it in her ear, and then that, that's how it all happened, you know. So you're the writer
Kristin Nilsen 52:37
on that song, which
Speaker 3 52:40
I came, I had the.. I don't do, maybe I brought that to him with, with my demo that I had, that I did. It's not like it's not like the old days, where they would say, where they go to the Brill Building in New York and get, you know, get songs from writers. It's just a different, different time. So, yeah, so you know, Jason is always keeping my stuff in mind, which is great. My son, you know, he's doing great in the business. And
Michelle Newman 53:06
yeah, tell us, tell everyone, give me those
Speaker 3 53:09
choruses, give me those choruses. Yeah, tell
Michelle Newman 53:11
everyone listening, you're about your son, like how he's involved in what you do and what he does.
Speaker 3 53:18
Yeah, well, he, the way, the way started, you know, he started in my studio, you know, he's always very thankful that I always said, you know, go ahead, yeah, use the studio, that he took it over, pretty much, but he, he started out with, you know, one song he did for Disney, and then he did a Demi Lovato song, Heart Attack, that got that, really got him going, and he's such a great song. Oh yeah, and he's working with Benson Boone right now, so he's got a lot of songs on Benson Boone's album. He's got, I think, I think he's got five on the last album, and as
Michelle Newman 53:53
a writer or a producer, as a writer, producer,
Speaker 3 53:55
he's a writer, producer.
Carolyn Cochrane 53:56
Well, let me ask you, since you said you sometimes work together, and what is that like? Because I imagine working with any of my children, and I don't know that it would be productive. So, what does that mean? See, see each other as equals. How does that work?
Speaker 3 54:15
We were.. I mean, the amazing thing is, whenever we work together, we immediately click. It's like we immediately write something really good, you know. It's like we have this great genetic thing going that we just kind of think the same way we, we wrote a song together, maybe I don't know, a few months ago, but we must have finished it in the entire thing with production and everything in three hours, and it was a killer, it was a killer song, you know. People would
Kristin Nilsen 54:44
kill for a writing partner like that.
Speaker 3 54:45
I know, is
Kristin Nilsen 54:46
that something that you could then go and record at Abbey Road, like you did with this album, or is it a very specific reason that you go to Abbey Road to record, to record, produce?
Speaker 3 54:56
Well, yeah, I think, because, you know, I can do everything here. Okay, it's, and it comes out great. I mean, it's, I mean, I did a lot of the end of the Abbey Road thing here, then I ended up here kind of getting the final warmth that I wanted, let's put it that way. And the mixing
Kristin Nilsen 55:11
of it,
Speaker 3 55:12
yeah, the mixing I did, I did all the mixing, you know, because I mean I did all the editing, and Joe Coryell did, he did the orchestrations, and he did such a great job on the orchestrations. I mean, that's a lot of what you feel,
Michelle Newman 55:26
and I love, and you touched on this just a little bit when you were talking about the tears, you know, how you tears like rain when you heard it, because composing all these, you had really just heard this on the piano, correct, and then all of a sudden you have this 65 piece orchestra, which is not just like some flukes we got together. I mean, this is the London, you know, the Royal Philharmonic Orchestra, and you're in this iconic studio. I mean, that had to have just been overwhelming.
Speaker 3 55:59
It was over,
Michelle Newman 56:00
wonderful. Yeah,
Speaker 3 56:01
I hope I can do it again. I would love.. I have another.. I have another almost eight ready to go again. So, I'm.. I've been working on the next one already. Volume two,
Carolyn Cochrane 56:10
yeah, volume two. You've got that learning curve, you're on the other side of that learning, yeah. Exactly, exactly. Abby Road,
Kristin Nilsen 56:19
Abbey Road makes me think of the Beatles, which makes me think of musical influences, and I'm always really fascinated with what people's first influences were when they were children, when they were teenagers. What was.. what was the first album that was meaningful to you when you were a kid, or when you were a teenager?
Speaker 3 56:36
When I was.. I mean, I remember on the Ed Sullivan Show, this takes you way back, right? So, my sister and I, I remember us, you know, we don't even know what happened to us. It was, it was like, and because, you know, we got this old black and white half static television, you know, sitting there on the.. and my sister and I were were jumping up and down like kids do, you know, and and my parents were close by, and all of a sudden they hear us screaming, right? They hear us like just jumping up and down. We're going crazy. We don't even know why we're going crazy. My sister's crying, right? She's crying, and I'm like, what is she crying about? I don't get that. And, but, but, whatever. You, what was that? 62 or something like 64 Okay, yeah. And, and so we were just jumping up and down, going crazy, and ever since that day, I, I was a Beatles fan. I mean, I, I mean, forget it. That was, they were, without a doubt, you know. I
Kristin Nilsen 57:36
don't know why that makes me want to cry, but it kind of makes me, yes, the
Michelle Newman 57:41
whole right, but then we're all like, because, like, you're just asking who was your first musical influence, but yet we, that was on the tail end of him talking about being in Abbey Road Studios, recording his own music, like that's just that's, oh, when we got there
Speaker 3 57:59
that day, it was, I tell you this part, because Joe and I said, Joe, we got to take our shoes off and walk across the street. So we did. We took some pictures. I can't, I gotta find these pictures, but.. but when.. then we got.. I said, wait a minute, man. The Volkswagens here. So they were doing her.. they were doing a reenactment that day that we happened to be there, so they had all the.. they had the Volkswagen bus there, they had the whole.. I said, "Can you believe this, Joe? So we just took a bunch of pictures, and
Kristin Nilsen 58:28
again, feeling like I'm gonna cry a little bit. Yeah,
Carolyn Cochrane 58:31
synchronicity.. again, I feel like that's such a thread throughout your career, if like you hadn't been at certain places at certain times. It's just amazing.
Speaker 3 58:40
Yeah, Kara, I'm right about that, because that, that's the way everything is always gone. It's always been like the thing you least expect, and yeah,
Speaker 3 58:48
you kind of have to go with it, right? You just have to, the only thing you got to do, young artists that are starting out, the only thing you got to do is be ready. Just be ready. Wow, because you never know. Great
Carolyn Cochrane 59:00
message, you never know when
Speaker 3 59:01
you don't know what's gonna happen. I mean, if you're not ready, then you know, then you're in trouble. Move along, right? Then somebody else gets it, you know. But, but, yeah, and
Kristin Nilsen 59:11
talk, we haven't talked amongst ourselves about how people listen to music today, because it's so different, and there's so many different ways to do it. So, how we listen to it today versus how we did it when we were growing up, analog versus digital, owning something tangible versus streaming something. How do you want people to listen to your music?
Speaker 3 59:32
Well, you know that's the thing about, we were talking about this, we had a conversation about what you're saying, and, and I heard this, I heard, I think it was a podcast. Somebody said the difference in now and then is people used to actually invest in you, like you invested in an artist. I couldn't wait for an album to come out. I was going to go down, and I'm buying that out right away. So, I've actually invested in that artist, which. You know, propagates the love and the feeling and everything that you have for that artist, right? So now people, if they listen to her very quick, yeah, I like that, yeah, that's cool. Next thing, you know, so there's no investment in, and so when I say investment, you know, people, you might think right away, oh, you mean you wanted me to buy your album, you know? Yeah, well, it's nice if you buy an artist's album, because you're supporting the artist. It costs me to make the album, I'll say about 60,000 right? So now, do you think I'm gonna make that on Spotify? I mean, I'd have to have, like, yeah,
Speaker 3 1:00:35
you'd have to have, I don't know, how many billions, yeah, just to make maybe $10,000 you know, maybe if you're lucky, so, so, but when I say invest, the thing that you really want, I think every artist wants, wants what you said, what you guys said right in the beginning, how you felt, that's what that's what they want, they want you to feel what they're a piece of what they're feeling, you know, and that's that's the thing that I could say would be the most valuable thing is to have people feel, you know, you feel when you make it, when you, when you're creating it, and yeah, putting it together, that's
Michelle Newman 1:01:15
worth, I mean, it can sound a little cliche, but that's priceless, right, to have, yeah, to have achieved that. It's almost like, yeah, you can't put a, you can't put $1 sign, yeah, right. You mean, got to make tears like
Speaker 3 1:01:30
rain, you know what I mean? Yeah, if you feel that way, you know, that's that's the thing, and
Carolyn Cochrane 1:01:37
we're all, you know, feeling those feelings together, it's something special, so we're so grateful that you know you're you get it, like I feel like we're your team, us, we're team you, we're on the same page, we kind of know how to make people feel, and that's something that I think is really important, and so Greg, this has been beyond a pleasure, I mean, we're always excited to, by the way, I feel the same way. Thank you. Yeah, so thank you for sharing the stories, and especially these full circle moments. I mean, the chills I still have from you and your sister watching the Beatles to you, you know, recording this album that you're talking to us about at Abbey Road Studios, and what else do we need to say? It's just like, you know, mic drop. We can't wait to see where this music takes you, and we look forward to talking to you again. I appreciate
Kristin Nilsen 1:02:32
that. Yeah. Oh my gosh, anytime.
Michelle Newman 1:02:35
So good to see you. Yeah,
Speaker 3 1:02:37
you too.
Michelle Newman 1:02:37
What an incredible conversation that was with Greg Evigan. He is truly one of the nicest guys. He is smart. We're all just.. we all just feel better after we talk to him. We truly do, fans. And we would love for you to order a physical copy of his album. It's available in vinyl and on cd@evigon.com just Eve again, not Greg evegan.com evigon.com It's a great website. I mean, right away you get to see his beautiful face, you get to, you know, find out what he's doing, and there's a tab at the top that says shop, and you also can hear sample, a sample of this album that we've just been talking about, but we're all huge fans of him and huge fans of this album, and we think you'll love it too.
Carolyn Cochrane 1:03:28
Oh, we know you will. Yeah,
Kristin Nilsen 1:03:30
this should be inspiring for all of us. Everything that we've talked about here, talking with Greg Evagin about his new things, and all of the people that came before, we are never just one thing, and we need to listen hard to ourselves, to our hearts, to see what messages we're being sent. Right? If your job is not satisfying to you, you can. Can you make room for the thing that does make you happy? All of these celebrities have shown us that it is never too late. We are still becoming who we are, and it does not need to be something that will make you money. Sometimes those things we love will never pay the bills, and that is okay. Pay the bills with something else, and look for pockets of your life that would allow you to become even more. Thanks so much for listening today, and we will see you next time.
Michelle Newman 1:04:12
And before we go, we want to say a sincere thank you to our Patreon supporters. Your support truly means the world to us. You help keep this show alive. You believe in what we're doing, and you're part of this community in a way that feels a lot like the old days, sharing stories, memories, and moments that shaped us. We're so grateful you're on this ride with us. And today, we're giving a special thank you shout out to these Patreon supporters. T will don't know who that is, but again, sometimes they just give us their email. T will we see you, Dawn, Teresa, Janice, Melissa, Lisa, Melinda, Christina, Michelle, Lee, Maria, Bonnie, Lori, Liz, and Carrie, can. A e r i carry
Carolyn Cochrane 1:05:02
love it. Thank you guys so much. And another way that you can help support us and keep this Gen X nostalgia train chugging along is by rating, reviewing, subscribing, and sharing the show with everybody that you know. You can consider it your good deed of the day, kind of just like rewinding that VHS before returning it to Blockbuster. Remember those days.
Kristin Nilsen 1:05:23
Be kind, rewind. In the meantime, let's raise our glasses for a toast, courtesy of the Cast of Three's Company. Two good times,
Carolyn Cochrane 1:05:31
two happy days, to Little House on the Prairie. Cheers! Cheers! The
Kristin Nilsen 1:05:36
information, opinions, and comments expressed on the Pop Culture Preservation Society podcast belongs solely to Carolyn, the crushologist, and Hello Newman, and are in no way representative of our employers or affiliates. And though we truly believe we are always right, there is always a first time. The PCPS is written, produced, and recorded in Minneapolis, Minnesota, home of the fictional WJM Studios and our beloved Mary Richards. Nanu Nanu, keep on truckin' and may the force be with you.