Diving into “The Scott Fenwick Diaries with Author Kristin Nilsen”
Kristin Nilsen 0:00
And when I started writing it worldwide, crush had not yet been picked up by a publisher, and I didn't know if it ever would. So I had this conundrum, how do I write a sequel to a story that may not get published? So I had my palm read on the street in Mendocino, California, and I asked the palm reader, I'm like, What am I supposed to do here? And she said, act as if Welcome to
Kristin Nilsen 0:40
the pop culture Preservation Society. The podcast for people born in the big wheel generation who thought that if you couple skated with someone, you would probably get married.
Carolyn Cochrane 0:52
We believe our Gen X childhoods gave us unforgettable songs, stories, characters and images, and if we don't talk about them, they'll disappear, like Marshall will and Holly on a routine
Michelle Newman 1:03
expedition, and today we're saving all those feelings and fears of our first real life crushes with author and podcast host Kristin Nielsen, whose new middle grade novel The Scott Fenwick diaries is inspired by her own childhood crush On a shiny haired boy in her fifth grade class named, you guessed it, Scott Fenwick,
Carolyn Cochrane 1:26
I'm Carolyn, I'm
Michelle Newman 1:28
Kristen, and I'm Michelle, and we are your Pop Culture preservationists.
Michelle Newman 1:40
If someone asked you who your first crush was, most of us immediately reply with the name of a celebrity. For me at age four, it was Donny Osmond, Carolyn crushed first on Donnie as well, and Kristen just knew she was the perfect partner at age four for Davy Jones. That's the height thing, I think, right, it was absolutely yeah and the and the accent, yeah. Some of us even crushed first on cartoon characters. My husband and we've already had several episodes dedicated to these first celebrity crushes. We've even talked with a real PhD about the importance of these parasocial romantic relationships. That was Dr Rebecca Forster in Episode 86 by the way. And one thing we've mentioned time and time again is how these crushes, the ones we know deep down, will never evolve into real life, unless we are Winnie Hong who wrote fan letters to Willie Ames in the 70s and ended up marrying him in 2014 or Katie Holmes, but we all know how that turned out for her Wawa, they taught us so many things about how to crush in real life when it was time. And today, we're talking with someone we know who knows a lot about the importance of all types of crushing, as well as being incredibly insightful about all the feelings that come along with them. Seriously, she was and still is all of us at age 12, she is a bookseller, a youth service librarian, and the author of worldwide crush, a novel for middle school readers about one girl's quest to get tickets to the concert of her dreams, she's the self proclaimed pro crushologist for a successful and very fun podcast called the pop culture Preservation Society. Hey, that's this podcast, and she's here today. Imagine that to chat about her newest book, The Scott Fenwick diaries, which is inspired by her own childhood, real life crush, and it's the follow up to worldwide crush. Has a lot of crushes that's a lot welcome to the podcast. Kristen Nelson, thank you for having me. Oh, thank you for taking time out to be here.
Kristin Nilsen 4:00
So grateful. Thank you for asking,
Michelle Newman 4:01
oh my gosh, can we please just start by showering you with praise? Oh, please for this latest novel, you guys, I read the second half while I was in the waiting room, waiting, as you do, for my husband to get his retina lasered at the eye doctor the other day, and I was chuckling out loud, and then I was crying and sniffling. And I was definitely getting the side eye from a lot of the old people in the waiting room. Or maybe that was just their wonky
Kristin Nilsen 4:33
I don't know it is the eye doctor.
Michelle Newman 4:36
I immediately texted Kristen in our little group chat, and then I immediately had to go get these feelings down on in a review. And so I went to Goodreads, and I'm just gonna read the review. I left on Goodreads, because otherwise I'm gonna go on and on and on. Oh, I'm so excited. Christian's like, Christian's like, go ahead, yeah, make it as long as you want. So this was what I left. Left on Goodreads, and I will leave something like this on all the other platforms when I'm able to, because listeners, it's very important to leave reviews. I said, just as she did with her debut worldwide crush author Krista Nielsen, has wormed her way into my adolescent self and expressed all my fears, feelings, questions, longings and roller coaster emotions, this time relating not to a celebrity crush, but to a real life one I laughed out loud, many, many times. I cringed, I cheered, and yes, I cried. Sure, it's a middle grade novel, but I dare any grown adult not to find the relatability and connection to their younger selves in the pages of this book, The Scott Fenwick diaries, is not just pure delight, but affirmation that none of us were alone, even though we were all so certain we were
Unknown Speaker 5:49
Michelle, that's good.
Michelle Newman 5:53
It's all so true, though. And listen, we're gonna spend the next hour. I'm gonna even go deeper into what I mean by all of
Carolyn Cochrane 5:59
that. Ditto, ditto, ditto, everything you said, Honestly, I'm glad you could say all that, because I wasn't really sure I could conjure up the words, the right words, at least, to describe how much I loved this book. Dare I say, I mean, I loved worldwide crush, don't get me wrong. Yeah, this took me to another level. I've just got to say it moved me in so many ways, and I was man alone Kristen in a way that I didn't even realize was possible. So listen to this
Kristin Nilsen 6:28
cry a little bit. Just
Michelle Newman 6:33
also, can we just say because we've been along for this ride for the past several years, and we know how hard you've worked. So please cry. Take our Thank you. Take our adoration of this book, because we know the amount of work that went into
Kristin Nilsen 6:47
it's needed, yeah. And so this is really the first time, I mean people listening, you have to understand, I totally interrupted you, Carolyn, I'm so sorry. You have to understand, this is the first time I've gotten feedback like this, right? This is the first time people have read it, and I've heard from them at this very moment. So yeah, it's a little
Michelle Newman 7:03
emotional. We're not really just people, though, yeah,
Carolyn Cochrane 7:08
but we're also just because we're your friends and your co host does not mean that we are puffing you up in authentically. This is from the heart, truly. And so while I was reading it, you guys, I am Middle School. Carolyn, again, okay? Kristen, I felt things deep in my bones that I am not sure I would have ever felt again if it wasn't for Millie, honestly, but you know what? At the same time, I'm also Carrie. I'm Millie's mom. I'm the mom of a middle schooler who tried to navigate those treacherous waters of parenting a pre adolescent and not knowing what was right, what was wrong, making the mistakes, but all in the name of trying to be a good mom and figuring it all out. And you know what else I am, the grandma Cheryl wannabe. Okay, Cheryl is the kind of grandmother I want to be, funny, understanding, truthful and unabashedly herself. It was kind of an arc of life, who I was, who I am, and who I want to be, and how often do we have the opportunity to feel all of that at once? Yeah, that's a good point. Okay,
Kristin Nilsen 8:12
that's really that's very interesting to me, because I think I told this story already on the podcast, but I'll tell it again. My son, Liam, finally read worldwide crush. He's not a big reader, so I had to make him do it. And you know, on the on the verge of Scott Fenwick coming out, I was like, Dude, you have to be able to tell people what your mom does. And so he finally finishes, and he calls me the minute that he's done. He says, Mom, are you the mom in this book? And because him reading it as my child, right? He picked up on the fact. He said, everything that that woman said is something that you have said. And I said, Well, yeah, I guess that I am, but I'm also Millie, but I'm also grandma Cheryl. I'm all of the people. He's not wrong. I can't pull things up out of nowhere. And so for you to pick up on that too, that's meaningful to me, because I feel like to write a book for middle grade readers, you have to include all the people in their life. They don't exist in a vacuum. They exist with teachers and friends and parents and grandparents and neighbors and all the Kooky people around them.
Carolyn Cochrane 9:20
So Kristen, Michelle assigned me a job. She wanted me to give an elevator pitch. No,
Michelle Newman 9:26
I wanted no, I wanted you to ask. That was the question to ask. Kristen.
Unknown Speaker 9:31
Did you write one? I am Amelia. Bedelia.
Carolyn Cochrane 9:35
I wrote
Michelle Newman 9:35
one because, if you read underneath it, it says, Kristen summarizes the plot of the book. Well,
Carolyn Cochrane 9:41
yeah, I thought that was after I get and, yeah, why would I give an elevator
Speaker 1 9:46
pitch? Okay, well, I am. I want to hear what you have to say, though, and then I'll tell you what I
Carolyn Cochrane 9:50
think is that was the other joke. It's I, as I wrote on I said, How on earth can I do that? Like that was your question. Now I. So what I did was I wrote an acrostic because, you know, I thought maybe I would feeling, Carolyn, you have to read your acrostic after that's gonna be so that's great. So, Kristen, we would love for you to give us an elevator pitch of the Scott finwick Diaries, please.
Kristin Nilsen 10:16
Okay, so this is something that you're supposed to have down, like your publishers, like, Okay, gotta have your elevator pitch down, and you're supposed to do it the same every. Same every single time. And I do it differently every single time, maybe because it's about a lot of different things, I don't know. But just like worldwide, crush was inspired by my childhood crush on Sean Cassidy, the Scott Fenwick diaries is inspired by a crush that really saved me, a real life crush that I really needed after moving away starting a new school, and really not feeling like anyone really got me in this new school, but this shiny haired boy who sat in front of me in my new school, he had these most beautiful, luscious eyelashes, and I got a peek at them every time he turned around to pass papers behind right the teacher would pass out papers from the front of the room, and then you pass them to the person behind you. And sometimes you would pass them just over your shoulder, but sometimes you would turn around and hand it to it. And each time I would be like, Please, just turn around. Please just turn around so I could get just a peek at his shiny flop of hair and his beautiful eyelashes, it was really it was an important diversion for me, so that I could think about other feelings instead of just sadness of being in this new school where nobody knew me. Scott Fenwick was his actual name, and the fictionalized character of Scott Fenwick comes directly from my daydreams about the real Scott Fenwick in 1979 so yeah, there is no real Scott Fenwick in the book. It all comes from, you know, the made up place in my brain. So the premise of the Scott Fenwick diaries begins when Millie receives a note in social studies class for the first time in her life from a boy, and she has no idea what to do, how what is her response? What is supposed to happen here? She's never even considered that someone would like like her and send her a note. So she's kind of paralyzed, but she's also excited, and she's also smitten, and the story that unfolds is inspired by my own profound cluelessness in seventh grade about how to do anything at all, about your crush, some people appeared to know exactly what to do. I did not, and neither does Millie, and so she relies on a cast of characters to help her analyze and decipher and make plans, because crushes in seventh grade are not done alone. These are not solitary activities. These are group projects. So her cast of characters includes her best friend, Shawna, who relies heavily on information from her magic eight ball. Her neighbor Tibbs, who lives behind Scott and took care of his cat last spring break, and very importantly, goes to Hebrew school with him, so she has a special relationship, slash inside information that could help Millie. So like using, like I said, this is a group project, and along the way, there are obstacles, mostly in the form of Millie's mom's obsession with the sound of music and her great grandma, Phyllis, is very naughty, very unfiltered behavior that threatens to embarrass Millie and ruin everything, because in seventh grade, you really think that one embarrassing moment will tank everything and you'll have to switch schools. So I'm not sure that gave you any of the plot, but it certainly tells you what happens and who's involved.
Carolyn Cochrane 13:34
Yeah, no, I think you did a great job setting it up, and I'm going to add a little bit to that. So I thought that I would channel my inner Millie, because Millie loves to do something in her journal. You might remember this from worldwide crush. She loves acrostics, and I, too love acrostics because they give me kind of a format to get my thoughts down. Otherwise, again, imagine this, listeners. My thoughts are all over the place. They're chaotic. So it's nice to have a little bit of a form to kind of stick to. And just
Kristin Nilsen 14:04
to remind people, an acrostic is when you take a word and you write it down the side of your paper, like vertically, and then you write something using the letter from each one of the letters of that word. Did I say that correctly? Does that make
Carolyn Cochrane 14:17
sense? Yes. So the word I chose is a word you're probably going to hear me say a lot during our conversation today, because it truly is a word that describes how this book affected me. The word is magical. Okay, so here we go. So M is for the way it makes M, a, k, E, S, it makes you feel so many feelings. There is the joy, there is the sadness, there is the happiness, the embarrass, it's all there. A is for the adults and middle schoolers alike who will feel seen in this book and so not alone. G for the goosebumps. Get ready for so many. Goose bump inducing moments, I is for impossible. So Kristen was able to pull off something that very few writers can do for me. Okay, I pride myself on kind of being able to tell where a story's gonna go or like, Oh, I know what this is. Just ask my husband when we're watching a show. I know what that means. I bet they're gonna do this, they're gonna that and shut up. Yes, and I'm really good at that. I think Kristen created several jaw dropping moments that I just did not see coming. Like, wow, the book down. I was like, Oh my gosh, that's so good. And yes, it makes sense. And why didn't I see that? But no, it was so it was great. See, you captured the nuances of friendship, the different types, and how they evolve as we grow and age. A is for the acknowledgements. Just like worldwide crush, the acknowledgements are just as entertaining as the story. Yeah, so that's my L, that's magical. That's not an elevator pitch. It's more of just me gushing about how much I loved it and giving you a little glimpse into some of the things I'm going to talk about as we continue. Thank you, Carolyn. Oh, you're welcome.
Michelle Newman 16:08
I love that. But now I'm a little worried that anywhere else in the outline that I just question you're supposed to ask Kristen
Speaker 1 16:15
that you answered, Carolyn, why did you write this book? Yeah, a
Carolyn Cochrane 16:19
little more obvious, but yeah, the next one,
Michelle Newman 16:24
you have to ask it Yes.
Carolyn Cochrane 16:27
So Kristen, what inspired you to keep Millie's story going with the Scott Fenwick diaries?
Kristin Nilsen 16:32
Yeah, that question is a little more straightforward, isn't it? Honestly, it just it simply didn't feel finished. The story was right. There it was starting on the last page of worldwide crush. That's the first page of the Scott Fenwick diaries. Literally, the last page. I'm gonna repeat it. The last page of worldwide crush is the first page of the Scott Fenwick diaries. It simply didn't feel done. And when I started writing it, worldwide crush had not yet been picked up by a publisher, and I didn't know if it ever would. So I had this conundrum, how do I write a sequel to a story that may not get published? So I had my palm read on the street in Mendocino, California, and I asked the palm reader, I'm like, What am I supposed to do here? And she said, act as if. Act as if worldwide crush is already published, and then write the Scott Fenwick diaries. Just write it. And that's been my mantra ever since. And somehow I threaded the needle between this is a standalone novel, which it could have been I was looking at. That was my possibility, the potential. This is going to be a standalone novel if no one ever picks up worldwide crush, and this is a sequel. I had to thread the needle between those two things, because even though I was acting as if worldwide crush would be published, I had to write it so that a person who had never read it would not be lost. But to answer your question, it's not even that I was inspired to write it. The story was just right there. It was taunting me, essentially, not that I knew what was going to happen. I really didn't know what was going to happen. Going to happen, but their story needed to be told, whatever that became, whatever that would become, even though that sounds so weird, like you know the story, but you don't know the story. I really didn't. I didn't know what was going to happen, but I knew the story was there to
Carolyn Cochrane 18:16
tell. You. Hear any writers say that a lot too, though the story, like comes through them, they don't know where it's going to go, but yet, you're the kind of the vessel from which it is going to go through and and again, you just did a great job. You're great you're a great vessel. But it also,
Michelle Newman 18:32
I think, it comes from a place of continuing, continuing Millie's story, even when you didn't know if the first part of Millie's story was was ever going to be read by anyone else, that also comes from a great place of passion for what you were doing and for the story and for the characters that you had created. And it comes from like a love of almost like the subject matter, because, like we say about you all the time, like you are our pro crushologist, and you have actually, in years past, even before this podcast, spent lots of time, like studying, really examining it. Yeah, the psychology, almost of the trajectory of crushes and the importance of them. I want to read from the very beginning of Scott Fenwick, and we get this important distinction on just page five. Listeners, this is Millie and her bestie, Shauna. They're freaking out over the note that Scott Fenwick has just passed Millie, like Kristen just mentioned, as we did, right? And Shauna is trying to convince Millie that the note means he, like, likes her, like, like, yeah, Shauna says this is not a celebrity crush like Rory Calhoun, bless his adorable, world famous face, and bless all the posters on your wall, this is something new. Now maybe it's a sign that Rory Calhoun is lovingly fading away like you can safely say goodbye. You. To your childhood crush. So Millie has to think about that for a minute. She wonders if her what her feelings were for Rory. Were they true love? Were they puppy love? And Shauna, who was always such a voice of reason, points out that this is real life, and Millie realizes she's right. Her feelings for Rory Calhoun came from looking at a poster or a magazine, and these new confusing feelings are coming hot and fast in real life. So I want to ask you, Kristen, why was it important to make sure that distinction was actually written in the book and quite at the very quite early, right at the very beginning, what was your intention with that conversation right away between Millie and Shauna.
Kristin Nilsen 20:45
A lot of it is that acting as if, like, truthfully, a lot of it has to do with threading that needle. If worldwide crush is published, I can't pretend that Rory Calhoun never existed. She can't turn it off like a faucet. Readers who who just finished worldwide crush would they would never believe it, and they might be pissed. I would be, I would just, I would close the book. But if worldwide crush isn't published, I have to show that she's growing up. This is a development. It's not coming out of nowhere. Crushes don't exist in a vacuum, like I just said, they are part of our development. She is progressing from a person who safely fell in love with a boy on a poster. So this is less a story about a relationship between two people, Scott and Millie, than it is about Millie's growing up journey when she was in love with Rory Calhoun, she always knew what to do in her quote, unquote relationship, right, right. There are no wrong answers.
Michelle Newman 21:41
Like you just said, she was safely crushing she was very safely
Kristin Nilsen 21:45
crushing on him. He's never going to break up with her because he's a poster boyfriend, but after her Rory Calhoun experience, she's ready to stretch. She as awkward and angsty as it is, he has prepared her for what comes next.
Michelle Newman 22:00
Yeah, and don't you feel too that some Well, I know you feel, but it's illustrated so well, because we all felt it. You feel like you think you're ready to stretch, but then when it actually comes down and the note gets placed on your desk, you panic, and you're like, What am I? But it's about, yeah, back to my poster
Kristin Nilsen 22:17
boyfriend. It's like, the difference between wanting and ready, like you might be wanting something, but readiness doesn't come in one fell swoop. You are ready in your wanting. Yes, I now desire that. I'm ready to desire that, but I have no experience with it, and I do not know what to do,
Carolyn Cochrane 22:35
right? And you did that so well in the book, it's, you know, the wishing and the hoping and then the it happens, and the fear and all of that. And that was one of those feelings that I described earlier that was in my bones, like I forgot about that, but I forgot that. What that felt like it was, you know, at one point she says she kind of wanted to be five years old again. Just you almost want to go back and be a little kid where, like your parents take care of you. You don't have to think, you don't have to decide anything. It's all done for you. And I remember that awkwardness of wanting to go ahead, but then wanting to go back in time, and you just you created that beautifully well,
Michelle Newman 23:13
like I said in my review that I read, and like Carolyn so eloquently said as well, there are a few key scenes that honestly made both my 12 year old and my 56 year old selves feel so seen. And I've talked about this a lot on the podcast before, but while I certainly had my fair share of crushes in my classes in elementary school, I was terrified to act on them. I felt, I don't know, I guess I felt so much shame, or something, if you will, that I didn't know what to do, like I didn't know what I thought I was supposed to do, or I was being I was very afraid that I do something wrong or I wouldn't know what to do in the first place. And I'm just talking everything from holding hands to what else? What else supposed to do? Because we've all heard about what Trish is doing in the woods with I talk about that all the time too. That was fifth grade. You're like,
Unknown Speaker 24:07
do I have to do that? And it
Michelle Newman 24:09
wasn't until decades later, I mean, decades later, that I realized that other people felt like that too. That was all of us. And I'm not kidding you guys, I was probably in my 40s when that shame just popped like a bubble over my head and and that we all are on our own timeline, because, again, I was terrified at, you know, seventh, eighth grade. And then I didn't even really have my real, a real boyfriend or go out on real dates where, you know, you were doing real stuff, until, it like the summer before I went to college, even, and so I had a lot of shame in that. And it's all on your own timeline, like it doesn't matter. And in the book, you do such a great job of illustrating Millie's feelings of this very same inadequacy, that feeling of, you know, insecurity that does make us all feel. Very seen when we're reading the book. There are several places where this is done so well, but this is a spoiler free zone, people. We don't want to give anything away, because we really do want you to go buy this and read this book, no matter how old you are. But I do want to read this passage about French kissing on page 207, I open my laptop and search how to French kiss. I don't even, first of all, can you imagine if we would have
Carolyn Cochrane 25:24
had Google? Oh, I don't know. I think I would have been like Peter Brady, and I would have been like, diagnosing myself, and then I would have been like, all the more scared when I read what
Michelle Newman 25:36
French Yes, this does kind of happen to Millie. Actually. I don't even know how to American kiss. How am I supposed to fully understand fringe kissing on TV, it looks like picking up your lips and putting them back down over and over again, but I need to know what's going on inside their mouths. The Google starts playing a kissing video at full volume, Frank and I slam my laptop shut carefully. I open it a tiny crack, reaching in to lower the sound with an old Barbie arm that fell off.
Carolyn Cochrane 26:10
Can you picture that the little Barbie?
Michelle Newman 26:15
And then this is what she finds out. French kissing is a passionate gesture of romance, where people kiss using their tongues? Yes, I know. But how? It says, use your tongue, yes, but how? Stroke their lower lip with your thumb, what? And keep your slightly open mouth close to there, so you can breathe in and out together. Why? And double what? Isn't there something midway between shmoopy and making out like for your first kiss? Is there something tongue free that comes before French kissing? Or do you go straight to tongues? Does any of this matter anyway? Or am I too late? Oh, so did this passage and others where Millie and even Shauna are worried about their inexperience, even though they're only in the seventh grade. But my God, I was worried about it in the fifth grade. Sure did this passage, and like I said, the other ones, did this come from a place of your own securities and confusion at that age?
Kristin Nilsen 27:12
Oh yeah, I needed to know what was going on in people's mouths. If you've never had a real kiss before, you don't know how it's initiated, and when you said the word schmoopie, that's because she's talking about the only kiss she's ever had is a kiss from her parents. And she's like, that shouldn't even be called a kiss. You can't put these two things in the same category, like they should call it like a shmoopy or something like that. So what comes between a schmoopie and a French kiss and and for me, the way that I had to find because we don't have the Google, I can't ask the Google, so the way that I found out was by just saying yes to some rando who was there to kiss me. And I was like, we just got to get this over with. And I don't know you very well, and I don't even like you, and you live far away, so I'm just gonna let you, like, do the thing, and that's how I'll know what is done. And when that tongue went in my mouth, I was like, What in the fuck, get this? What? And but I just sort of let it happen as a form of tutelage, and it was really quite disgusting, and he wasn't good at it, but at least I knew, Okay, that does really happen. That is how that happens.
Carolyn Cochrane 28:24
Yeah, much like you Kristen, mine was a spin the bottle game with a boy named ironically Scott.
Unknown Speaker 28:32
No, not ironically.
Unknown Speaker 28:34
Of course,
Michelle Newman 28:35
this book is dedicated to all the Scotts. With Scott in 1980
Carolyn Cochrane 28:43
just felt gross. But at the same time, I was like, well, now I know, check that box, but I had to find out baptism by fire.
Michelle Newman 28:52
And I feel like going back to what I said earlier, about how it wasn't until decades later that I was like, Oh, I can stop feeling like shameful or embarrassed that I didn't have, like, my first French kiss until I was like, you know, my God, I was probably the summer before I went to college or something like that. And I because I was just so scared, and also there just really wasn't an opportunity, but looking back and having, just having this conversation with you guys, and especially reading it, because, like I said, Everybody's on their own timeline. You guys had things that happened way before I did, but when we were in fifth and sixth and seventh grade, we were all having the same fears and insecurities. I just kept mine going longer, and also just didn't really have the opportunity, right? There's a lot of reasons, and some of them were of my own, you know, choosing, and some of them were out of my control. But I feel like just now knowing, like, I'm almost surprised, talking to you guys, still to this day, that you guys are saying I didn't know either. Like when
Kristin Nilsen 29:50
I was reading this, everyone else has it figured out. Kristen, yeah, everybody
Michelle Newman 29:53
else was Trisha going into the woods, yeah.
Carolyn Cochrane 29:55
Well, and to your point, kind of, Michelle, the way I felt reading. This and feeling so seen was the difference between, like, the crush, and you kind of have it, I don't want to call it the pursuit, but it's like, this anticipation, it's it's so fun and exciting, and then kind of when it's reciprocated, and you've kind of gotten to that finish line, for lack of a better word, that you've been striving for, and then you're like, I don't think I want to be at this finish. It's like, I want it, but I don't want it. And I thought for sure this was one of those feelings in my bones that I thought nobody else felt that way, like people would be so excited that their crush finally liked them. Nobody would be like, now this, have this trepidation. And my gosh, Millie had it. And I was like, well, then that means Kristen had it, because Millie,
Michelle Newman 30:45
it's almost like a Be careful what you wish for.
Kristin Nilsen 30:48
That's right. I'm here now. Well, what do I do now? Right? Exactly. I got exactly what I wanted. Wasn't this what I
Carolyn Cochrane 30:54
wanted? Right? Exactly. And
Michelle Newman 30:56
I love I don't want to give anything away. Okay, well, my first crush in real life was in the fifth grade on a boy who I have an on again off again crush with for the entirety of my stint in Ridgefield, Washington. And this is someone who my best friend Lisa, ended up marrying. They're divorced now, and it's a friendly divorce, but like he was at my wedding, and when they were first married and Brianna and I were first married, we would go with our with our older daughter when she was a baby, because they're their first son. They're like three four months apart. So we would go to Washington and stay with them and visit with them. So it's really weird that he was my first crush, and then he ended up being like a part of my adult life as well, and a very big part of my best friend, Lisa, yeah. But anyway, in fifth grade, I was the new girl, like you said, Kristen, you were and on day one, I instantly thought he was cute. And I'll never forget my mom. She was picking me up from school, I don't know, maybe a few weeks after the beginning of the school year, and she asked how my day was. And I was like, ugh. Peter van Tilburg wouldn't stop hitting me over the head with his lunch box. And she immediately went, Oh, sounds like he has a crush on you. And I was mortified, but I was elated that she, you know, that she got that. And then I don't know how much longer, but he I got the past the folded note passed to me that asked if I wanted to go with him. That's what it was. Will you go? That's what we said, too. And I said yes, but I remember being terrified to say yes, because what did that mean? What did that mean? I didn't know. I thought I knew, but, but now that I was really in the situation, did I know exactly? And it apparently meant we sat together on the bus on the way home, and we would talk and we would laugh, but I can remember so clearly that almost adrenaline rush every time I'd get on the school bus, of being so excited but also so scared. Like, was he gonna hold my so but then that was he gonna kiss me on the bus in front of everybody? Like, I don't know if I want that, and I don't know, so that's why the Scott Fenwick diaries, I was just like, yes, yes, yes. The the excitement, you want it, but the fear, what am I supposed to do with this wanting
Kristin Nilsen 33:12
you're not, right? It's there. There's a bridge you're not ready to cross, like you're ready to go to the bridge, but then when you're on the bridge, you get too scared, and
Michelle Newman 33:20
you run back. Yeah, I was not ready to go into the woods.
Carolyn Cochrane 33:25
Well, two names come to mind when I think of my kind of first early crushes. And these are kids that I was in elementary school with. Okay, so this is like fourth and fifth grade, and I moved after first grade, and again after third grade. So there were lots of kids I went to elementary school with, and I don't remember nearly any of their names, but I do remember these first crushes. I remember Doug Irwin and Aaron Lomax, and it's crazy to me again that I can remember those names so specifically. And I recall vividly you guys giving a note to Aaron Okay with that classic. Do you like me? Yes or No, check the box. You guys. This could have been yesterday, Aaron. Check yes. Okay. So gave it to Aaron, but you know what? He wrote a qualifier next to it. Oh my god. As a friend, oh my gosh. I know to see those words,
Michelle Newman 34:20
I will say this is reminding me of a part in the book too, with a friend that Millie has don't want to give anything away, but where I feel like Aaron was really trying to spare your feelings. I want to say no, right? He was like, I do like you, but and how what grade was this?
Carolyn Cochrane 34:36
This was fifth grade. Okay, okay, and so. But you know what I did, you guys, I hid the as a friend part by kind of crossing it out and then drawing hearts over it. So when I showed it to my friends, they all thought that he liked me, and I kept that note. I think I convinced myself that he did too, because I remember like reading it at home and trying to see if he could see as a friend, like through the light. That people look at it, and I remember that you guys like it was yesterday,
Kristin Nilsen 35:04
and so it's almost like, so this is part of of the the growth of it is that it was as much of a win to have the public know that he liked you as it was to actually be in relationship with him. Yes, yes. That was like step one, right? And that's all you needed, apparently, for the time being, right? The longing that Carolyn, yeah, your little fifth grade self, you wanted it to be so you wanted it to be true so badly that you lied to yourself that it was gonna happen, right?
Carolyn Cochrane 35:35
And I, I'd like to think that I wanted it to be true, because I really, you know, thought he was cute, and I wanted all this, but I'd be lying if I said, if I didn't say that, part of it was there were probably other people that kind of had boyfriend that might have sat at lunch together, and I didn't want to be left out. So I wanted to have someone like me, because other people had people that were liking them. So it's kind of a different kind of crush, in a way, although he was super cute, and I still remember his name, and it was important for me to think that he liked me more, you
Michelle Newman 36:08
know, I will say on that. I do remember when Peter and I were going together, which was almost a very big part of the fifth grade year, at the roller skating parties that we had. I remember then, you know, we'd be with our own friends. But when the couple skate would come on, here would come Peter skate, no, because it was almost like, gotta go get the woman. Yeah, and I can't remember, like, to your point of what you were just saying, Carolyn, about wanting to be like one of the girls who had the boyfriend, or whatever I remember, kind of like when the slow song would come on, I got that nervousness that I was going to be holding his hand for so long with no talking, just skating, no talking, no talking, which is awkward, but much different than the skating parties. When the couple song comes on, and you're like, Is someone going to come ask me? Or maybe not. Oh, got a blister to go get a snack.
Kristin Nilsen 36:57
So tying your skates, you're like, down, tying your skate so it doesn't look
Michelle Newman 37:01
like you care. Yeah, don't care. But I remember the skate party, the one or two where we were going together sort of feeling like kind of cool, like I have someone to skate, couples skate with, yes, even though it was still like awkward, and
Kristin Nilsen 37:14
because it means you're a grown up, and the person who doesn't have anybody asking them is not yet a grown up. And we all want to be a grown up. Yeah, everybody wants to be a grown up. And there are a couple of places in the book that I wrote that I made up, and only after the fact did I connect it to something real, as if my subconscious was writing it. One actually, I think we'll come we'll talk about it later. I actually confirmed it in my diary. Whew. That was weird. But another place came to me, literally just now while we were talking, Oh, good. I will say there's a part where she self sabotages, which we sort of alluded to earlier. And I made it all up, except now I remember that it came from my very first experience of having somebody ask me to go roller skating, and it was a public affair. All of the girls on the playground came to get me, to bring me to the place where all the boys had taken Tom Mickelson and brought him to the place like Greece. It is like Greece. The two of us are in the middle of a circle. Yeah, we're at the pep rally. We're surrounded by our entire fifth grade class, and Tom Mickelson says to me, would you go roller skating with me? And my god, I wanted to go roller skating with him so badly, but I it's that, that bridge thing. I was ready to go get to the bridge, but I was not ready to cross the bridge and in and so what I did was I put a very disdainful look on my face, and I went, no cod. And he he did this. He snapped his fingers like Aw, shucks. Oh, he's saving face. Yeah, he was saving face. And then the crowd dispersed, and I immediately felt such incredible remorse. I wanted to go roller skating with him so badly, but I couldn't bring myself to cross the bridge. And so I got in my own way. And that's what Millie does, too. At one point, she gets in her own
Michelle Newman 39:12
way. Yeah, I got in my way a lot, and through all the way through, yeah, like my freshman year of
Kristin Nilsen 39:18
college, yeah. I think, I think, I mean, when you're asking the question Michelle of everybody's timeline being different, that could be one of the reasons is we get in our own way because we're simply not ready to cross that bridge. Now, contrast that to my first first real life crush, which was in kindergarten, when I had so much agency that I just went up to Jeffrey Hudgens, and I told him he was my boyfriend, and he believed me. He was like, Well, okay, I guess I'm your boyfriend. And when I was out of school for a couple of weeks because I had my tonsils out, my mom gets a phone call, and it's Jeffrey Hudgens, mom, and Jeffrey Hudgens would like to bring me flowers, and so she instructs me to go out on the front steps. And wait for Jeffrey Hudgens, and I remember what I was wearing and everything I was wearing, my blue overalls with bumblebees on that my mom had made, and because I picked it out, because Jeffrey Hudgens was coming over. And I will never forget his car pulling into the driveway, and the car door opens, and he pops out of the car, and he's carrying a bouquet of tissue paper flowers that he had made. Oh, that's so he brings them to me, and he just gives he just holds them out and I take them. There were no words exchanged, not one where he just turns right around, he goes, gets back in the car, and they drive away, and that was it. But I think the difference is, when you're in kindergarten, you can't imagine that anything will be asked of you, and so you're just willing to go for it. You're my boyfriend. But in fifth grade, you know, something comes next,
Michelle Newman 40:47
yeah, see, then you start to know stuff I know. In kindergarten, I Jack. He was my boyfriend, and I every day at recess, Jack had me, and like some other girls, we chased him. But then he didn't know how to tie shoes, so when his shoestrings would come untied. He would say, Time Time out. And he would turn around and put his shoe out in whichever one of us he picked to come tie a shoe. Was like, and he used to pick me to tie his shoe. And so I was like, well, we're, you know, he's my boyfriend. Jack's my boyfriend. Well, we're gonna embarrass you some more. Okay, good. I can do it. Carolyn, and I want to share some favorite passages and quotes and scenes from the book. But first, I want to make sure we talk about this, because, like I said earlier, you did spend a tremendous amount of time, like years ago, but then also, my goodness, especially since worldwide crush came out, you you didn't take a break. I mean, you've been going, going, going with edits and getting everything ready. So I want to talk about that, just a little bit about your process of writing this. Writing the second novel. How did it compare to the writing process for worldwide crush? Well, and
Kristin Nilsen 41:49
this is, this is all a very important distinction, because what listeners have to understand is that there are three people in this podcast, but one of them can only show up, like with half of her brain, because the other half of her brain is writing a book or promoting a book, or something like that. And Carolyn Michelle have been so incredibly gracious by saying, we'll pick up the slack. You just do what you need to do. We'll pick up the slack. So we got this.
Unknown Speaker 42:15
We knew we were going to just
Carolyn Cochrane 42:17
being altruistic. We know there was a prize at the end. But
Kristin Nilsen 42:21
that was a big worry of mine, especially at the beginning of the podcast, was like, how am I gonna? How can I carry this load and write and publish a book at the same time? I'll never be able to catch up to these guys. And finally, Carolyn Scheller were like, we're not asking you to catch up to us. You do your thing and then you show up when you can.
Michelle Newman 42:39
Yeah, don't underplay your right, right contribution to the podcast. I've never
Kristin Nilsen 42:43
not shown up. I always show up. But, you know, they they do the heavier lifting than I do. So that's an important distinction. So how does it how did writing the second one compare to writing the first one? It went much, much faster, by years, by years, even though I changed the storyline a bajillion times. The drafting process was decreased by years, and that's because worldwide crush was like reinventing the wheel constantly. I wrote that book by instinct and trial and error, and I was able to avoid a lot of that same tinkering with the Scott Fenwick diaries because I had done it before. But then when it got hard, as it always does, I started to get squirrely, and I was making myself so busy that I couldn't work on it in a meaningful way. And I was procrastinating. I was avoiding. I was I was in such consternation. I was so over scheduled, I was so busy, and I just sort of combusted one day when I'm like, What are you doing? You are overwhelmed, and you're not doing the thing that you really want to do. What are you avoiding? Because I knew that this novel was better than worldwide crush. I felt that what I had done already was a better novel than worldwide crush, and I wasn't going to let myself weasel out of it. So I quit everything. I was a huge quitter. I had all sorts of obligations where I just went. I'm sorry. I'm not showing up anymore. I'm drawing a line, I'm drawing a boundary. I'm not here for you. I'm only here for myself, and that is all and then I hired an editor who demanded pages from me every week. I couldn't hide anymore, and that was the key to getting it, not just done, but getting it really, really tight. But it's funny because people noticed, because I when I say I dropped out of everything. I even dropped out of my social life. I didn't meet people for walks, I didn't go out to coffee. I did nothing social whatsoever. I showed up for writing group, and that was about it. But I just realized that I was filling my life up so much in order to not do this very hard thing. And so I just decided, I guess I don't need
Michelle Newman 44:53
friends. All those friends understood.
Kristin Nilsen 44:56
Well, they absolutely did, 100% all of. Those people were waiting for me when I was done. And so that's a real, true test of what people are there for. Are they there because you like to go out for drinkies on a Wednesday night, or are they there because they love you? And every single person knew what I was doing, and they let me be, and then they were there when I was done.
Carolyn Cochrane 45:20
The book is set in current times. So obviously, we have phones, we have texting, we have all those things, but this note passing is really important. It's an important part of this story. And you're thinking, I'm thinking, Well, you know, how is she gonna convince people that note writing is still a thing and it's okay? And I don't know if you did this on purpose, but I think it was very clever, because a lot of their back and forth in these notes, there's drawings, there's art, there's illustrations, there's things that could not be done on text by texting, that's the way they communicated. And I thought, well, that was a really clever way to incorporate the fact that this has to be by note, because it's what they're doing. Couldn't have happened through texting. Was that purposeful, or did that just
Kristin Nilsen 46:06
the answer is both. I did have to, I had to first of all find out, do people still write notes, and then I had to also justify why they were writing notes. And a lot of this is wishful thinking, because I knew I was writing a story that came from another time, but I was putting it in the current time, but I didn't, but I couldn't make it unbelievable, so I did have to justify that there was a reason for them passing notes. And I also wanted to show like for the kids who are reading it, do notes. Please. Do notes like this is still important. Look at what you can communicate in a note that you can't communicate in a text. This is really important. I wanted to show that this was an analog way of being that can bring people closer together and and elevate your crush experience so much more than a dumb text or a dumb emoji. Yeah, you did that so well. You really thank you.
Michelle Newman 46:56
Yeah. So before we get into our favorite parts, Kristen, do you have a favorite part or a favorite scene from the book?
Kristin Nilsen 47:03
Oh, I really. I yes the answer is yes. So I had to read this book so many times just in the course of, like proofreading, like in the pre publication process. And I was so overjoyed that every time I read it, I loved it. Every time I read, I was like, Oh, God, this is, like, exactly what I want to
Speaker 2 47:23
read. Who wrote this? Yes, who is this genius? But,
Kristin Nilsen 47:27
you know, they always say, write the book that you want to read, and that's what I did. I'm not saying that it's going to be everybody else's favorite book, but I did write the book for me, the reader who I was and am. And so I'm really pleased with myself about that. And so I have a few scenes that are really important to me. The first one is right at the very beginning of the book, and it is kind of how I began this whole process. Of course, the first page came from the last page of worldwide crush. But then the very next scene is where Millie and her mom have to take her great grandma Phyllis, who is grandma Cheryl's mom. Great Grandma Phyllis to target to go grocery shopping, and it turns into a complete and utter debacle that includes chasing Great Grandma Phyllis on her senior scooter through target. And that all came from a story that was planted in my head decades ago, decades ago, when a neighbor of mine was complaining to my mom about bringing her mom to the grocery store, and when they get there, she's like, Well, what do you want? Well, what she wants is little Debbie's. And my mom's friend was like, No, I mean, like, deodorant. Like, no, no. We're not here for a little Debbie's. We're here for important things. And grandma's like, well, I want little Debbie's. That's where this entire scene came from. She's they're chasing grandma fellas through the target because she has only put little Debbie's in her cart, and she's off to the checkout, and they're just chasing after her. That's one of my favorites, and it's right at the beginning of the book. I also love the bar mitzvah scene. Scott's Bar Mitzvah, because I think it is classic seventh grade shenanigans. Yep, they were the teenagers band together, and they ditch the party, and they go to do naughty things. And by naughty things, I'm not saying, like they're going to make out in the closet or anything, but of course, that's what Millie is worried about. Like, oh no, what's gonna happen here? But they are just being silly and bouncing off the walls and drinking communion grape juice. And then there's one scene that I think is one of the most important scenes in the book, which takes place in a stairwell at school. And this is what I was talking about before, when I said I wrote a scene, thinking I had made it all up. And then much later, I'm reading through my diary from fifth grade, and I read a diary entry that stops me cold, because in the stairwell scene in in the Scott Fenwick diaries, Scott Fenwick takes her shoe. And I was just thinking that this is something that it's sort of like the pulling the pigtails thing. It's like a form of. Intimacy, but it's not scary, and it means that he likes her, and he's not doing it in a way that is taunting or anything. It's just something that they're giggling over. So for listeners, I just had to run downstairs and grab my diary so that I could actually read this to you. So just to reiterate, there's a very important scene where Millie and Scott are in the stairwell, and she's kind of wondering, is this a date? Is this our first date? And he does this very cute thing where he kind of takes her shoe months just a few months ago. So years after I've written that passage, which I thought came out of my own imagination, I find my fifth grade diary, and so I'm going to read this entry that I found too. This is November 17, 1979 Dear Diary, it's been a while, hasn't it? Tonight, we went to see the music man at Anoka Senior High. Scott Fenwick was there too. And I think he likes me. He kept on coming up to us and talking to us, that's Amy F and me. And he saw that I didn't have any shoes on, so he went and he stole one of them. Now I think he's cute. Dad says we look good together.
Carolyn Cochrane 51:07
Oh my gosh.
Michelle Newman 51:10
Then there's a shoe scene.
Kristin Nilsen 51:11
Yes, that I thought I made up. This just tells you why we're doing this podcast and why people listen to it, because our memories are in there, whether we are conscious of them or not, right, exactly,
Carolyn Cochrane 51:25
and that's what your book did for me. I mean, it brought back, not even just memories, but the feeling like you were so good at describing how Millie was feeling that I was like, Yes, I remember feeling that too, but I wouldn't have remembered I felt that until I experienced it again through Millie, and it was so familiar. Yeah, it was right there. Yeah.
Michelle Newman 51:48
Well, besides being, you know, relatable to all of us, this book is hilarious, like laugh out loud, many, many, many times the whole way through it. And one of the things that cracked me, it cracked me up in worldwide crush, but I feel like it was you did it way more in the Scott Fenwick diaries is the expressions that Millie comes up with and she uses are her mom used mostly Millie, but they change all the time. So funny. So besides Gob and Schmidt and double Schmidt and frigging Schmidt, which we're familiar with from worldwide crush. We got some some new ones, and maybe they were in worldwide crush, and it's just been a while, but this is just, this is not even a comprehensive list listeners, things like horror, sweet cheeses, end of days come good gravy, dear sweet baby Jesus, God bless America. Holy Hannah. Cheese Balls. Cram it. This is my favorite, though, all at once, at one point she's thinking in her head, Schmidt, excrement, feces. That says in my head, I scream every bad word I know. Where does those come from? Is that just something funny? Or when you were a kid, did you do things like cheese balls? Holy Hannah? It
Kristin Nilsen 53:08
comes from a couple of places. So Millie has a lot of feelings, but she's a good girl. She does not use bad language. She doesn't want to use bad language, as grandma Cheryl says, kids who swear are like kids who don't wash their hands after they poop, and so that's important to her, but she also has a lot of things that she needs to express. So my grandma had a lot of expressions that she threw out. It was like she had a new one all the time. There were only a few that she repeated. She repeated holy Christmas all the time, which I'm sure is in there. Oh, good gravy. She did a lot gravy. Holy cats. She did. Holy cats was in there. Holy cats was in there. And Millie has just a little bit of grandma in her. Just like Carolyn's Alter Ego is Carolyn and I carried an Agatha Christie novel with me when I was in seventh grade. She has just a little bit of old lady in her. But then also, when I met Mike, he would come out with these old man sayings all the time, like, like, God bless America, or fudge jumbles all the time. Schmidt comes from Mike. He actually says Schmidt all the time, still to this day. And he would act like they were commonplace, like, everyone goes sassafras,
Michelle Newman 54:23
like, who doesn't say that? I also like when Millie starts learning about Judaism, and she's studying, you know, which is actually you have a nice little primer in the book for people who might not know, but she realizes you can't say the word God. It's like G and then a little dash, and then d. So then for a few pages after that, instead of Gob, she says, God, but it's written. But she's not saying it. She's thinking, g
Kristin Nilsen 54:46
dash dash Yeah, and she'll actually say out loud, g dash D. That's g dash D,
Michelle Newman 54:53
because she's a good girl, right? I also think you guys keep talking about grandma Cheryl, who was, I think, my favorite character in a worldwide crush. How that's you guys strive to be grandma Cheryl and this book, Grandma Phyllis was so hilarious, I actually think all three of us are going to like it or not, end up as grandma Phyllis, who has no filter and just clueless, but she's just doing whatever the hell she wants whenever she wants, and calling everybody by their wrong names. And I'm like, You know what I'll be grandma Phyllis, probably. And you know what, God willing, right? Or
Kristin Nilsen 55:30
willing? That's right? Yeah, Grandma Phyllis doesn't give a fig.
Carolyn Cochrane 55:33
No, as I have said before, my and those of you watching on video will see my book is just filled with sticky notes, because that's how many times I thought I want to remember this. I want to ask Kristen about it. If I asked her about every single thing I have a sticky note next to, we'd be here until 2026 but so I'm not going to do that. I'm just going to choose a few. So one of the qualities, I guess that Millie has that you described so well, and that I could relate to so well was kind of the stories that Millie would tell herself. If this happens, then this is going to happen, then this is going to happen. It was like this spiral, and it was so fast, and I was there in a second. For instance, she is embarrassed, she's afraid that her social studies teacher is going to take her note away, and so she is like, picturing what's going to happen if this happens and she gets caught? Yes, so yeah, if she gets caught with the note and she said, There's no stopping the redness of my face now it's fun. It's on fire and pulsates like the thumping in my chest. I'm trapped in a cage of humiliation. How will I get up and leave this room? How will I walk the halls again? How will I come back tomorrow? I may have to switch schools. I can go to the Catholic school with my neighbor, Tibbs, and we can carpool so my mom has doesn't have to drive me. I'll have to wear that long plaid skirt uniform thing, but Tibbs does and makes it look okay. My face burns and my mind races planning what shoes I could wear with my Catholic School Skirt. Oh my gosh, you guys. I love that, and I know what that is. How quickly your mind can go with, what if my teacher picks up a note to, you know, we've got a paragraph later, she's trying to pick out her shoes for her Catholic school uniform. They are so funny and so relatable, and she does that a lot, and you just have to just laugh, because, to be honest, I might do that a little bit now in my life.
Michelle Newman 57:25
Just about to say, Carolyn, you're just now. You're relating to that because you're like, that
Carolyn Cochrane 57:31
was yesterday. There are so many of those, and they just made so smile on my face, so
Michelle Newman 57:35
many. And I started, I didn't want to fold down the corners of my book, but I started putting my little flags, and I was like, pretty soon, every page is going to be flagged. I have to read you this because we obviously, we don't want to give a lot away. But Kristen, good gravy. Where does this come from? They are getting to the the nursing home to see grandma, Phyllis. It says When we arrive, Phyllis is waiting for us in the lobby, watching Family Feud, surrounded by old ladies. Gentle meadow has a general old lady smell, sort of a powdery fart smell. Wait till the next sentence, though, this is when, where I like did a spit take. I think it makes me wonder if they fart powder or powder their farts. It's not bad, I guess, just very natural,
Michelle Newman 58:36
powdery fart smell. And I would also say kind of like that old school lunchroom smell a little bit
Carolyn Cochrane 58:41
yes, yes, when she does to run so hard, I
Kristin Nilsen 58:45
literally, I know exactly when I had that exact thought. So again, most things do not come to me when I'm sitting in front of a keyboard writing a book. Everything is collected. It all comes from someplace else. And so I remember I was at my health club, and my health club was highly populated by old ladies. And I remember one day there was a woman walking around in a Norwegian sweater, and nothing else like no bottoms, just a Norwegian sweater. I couldn't put that in the book, obviously, but I remember I was in the stall. I was in the bathroom stall, and there was that very familiar smell. And I was like, it's not a bad smell, it's just an old lady smell. It's kind of like powdery farts. But then I did wonder to my and I'm an adult woman thinking this, like, do they powder their farts? Powder? And because I'm a big journaler, I like, poof, yes, a little youth dot. And I, because I journal every day, all day, every day, I just write all the thoughts that I had all day long. And I wrote that one down, and that ends up in the book.
Michelle Newman 59:48
Oh, my God, it's like deep thoughts with Jack hands. Yes, that would have been a good one on SNL. And then a couple paragraphs later, Millie goes into the bathroom at the nursing home, and she's looking for a place to escape my eye. Dart around the room looking for a place to run. I see the restroom sign, but that's probably where the powdery farm smell comes from. I have that circled.
Carolyn Cochrane 1:00:09
I love that because it is so so true. Earlier in our conversation, I talked about how I really loved the way You wove in the nuances of friendships and the kind of relationships that we have at this time in our lives. And one of the places that really struck me, and she's talking to one of the girls that's kind of considered popular, let's say the cool people. Yeah, the cool people. And she says that this girl sits behind me in language arts, so we've corrected each other's paper. That's a certain kind of knowing someone. It's like the most basic level of friendship. Yes, okay, you guys. It's these little moments where you think, oh my gosh, yes, it's that person for me, like in high school, we sat in alphabetical order all four years in like, homeroom, and then your lockers were right next to each other. So Jim Rowley, I grew up with him from ninth grade till we graduated. Were we the best of friends, like outside I mean, we were social, but I knew Jim Rowley in a way that I didn't know anyone else. And it's a unique kind of friendship, but it's a friendship, nonetheless, it's a relationship.
Kristin Nilsen 1:01:18
It is something that it's not very deep, but there is an intimacy there, like, if you're correcting somebody's paper, you know what kind of speller they are, yes, you know, if they're a smarty or if they're struggling. So there is, you know, there's a knowledge that goes between the two of you, and you may not ever speak of it, and it may not go beyond that classroom, but it's a friendship,
Michelle Newman 1:01:37
exactly.
Carolyn Cochrane 1:01:38
And those kind of relationships, whether it's that level of friendship or or even grandma Phyllis level of friendship and the people that she's mad at. And then you learn about different kinds of friends that Millie has, or thinks that they're not her friends, but then they step up to the plate, and you're like, oh my gosh, I never knew this group of people cared about me like they do. So it doesn't always have to be the best friend, which, of course, she has in Shauna and we love and then we've got a little bit of triangular friendship, where there's a third person that comes into the picture, comes in and you remember that. And then, of course, what happens to friendships when there's a boy all of a sudden, and how that those friendships evolve, and how you get through that. And so there were so much of that that I loved, and it was so organic. It wasn't like you were trying to teach us a lesson or anything like that. It was, I loved how Millie learned those things throughout
Kristin Nilsen 1:02:39
the really, it's just like it's just being able to take your your adult self, your 57 year old self, and survey the land of seventh grade, because now you can look at it and see what it was, and you can see all the landmines. You can see where your friendships were tested because you liked the same boy, yeah. Or you can see where your friendship was tested because a third person has been entered into the relationship, and this is for the first time, we're having trouble with our friends. We're having hiccups with our friends. When you're little, friends just come and go and you don't if you have a fight, it's probably a physical fight, and then you play the next day, right? But in seventh grade, we're having relationship issues with our friends because of new things that are being thrown at us and new feelings, and it's only being able to look at it from above like this, and being able to see how that operated and how that was important.
Carolyn Cochrane 1:03:32
Just a few other moments where I just laughed out loud, kind of and I guess I want to ask you a question too about this. So part of the story includes a family talent show that people are going to be in at the local middle school. Millie doesn't want to do this talent show, and her mom is very insistent. And at one point, mom was like, you have to, because in the program, it's going to say the Jackson Five. I just I loved it, the Jackson Five. Their name is Jackson. So when did you think that was gonna work? Had you had that the whole time that Millie's last name was Jackson? Did you know that at one point
Kristin Nilsen 1:04:11
they would be the Jackson Five? Actually, the the whole talent show portion came from worldwide crush and had to be cut. Oh, okay, so I just picked it up, and I had to figure out how to deliver it in the Scott Fenwick diaries. Her name was Jackson that just came to me, but I didn't plan on using Jackson Five until the talent show came around and it's and so she's like, we can't be the Jackson four. You have to participate. So we can be the Jackson Five.
Michelle Newman 1:04:40
Also, you're the only one that goes to this school. Yeah.
Unknown Speaker 1:04:44
Look strange. So funny. And
Carolyn Cochrane 1:04:46
let me just say, I'm learning this for the first time, that the talent show scene was originally in worldwide crush. It is an integral part of this. It's like it wasn't meant to be in worldwide crush at No. I mean,
Unknown Speaker 1:04:58
yeah, it's crazy.
Kristin Nilsen 1:05:00
Yeah, there's so much that I mean, and that's one reason I say this is a better book, because worldwide, crush was so stuffed full with so many different stories. And so people were just like, take this out. Take this out. Take this out. But they were precious stories to me. They were I had crafted them so carefully, and I couldn't just let them die. And so I need to find a way to incorporate it into Scott Fenwick, and it becomes, yeah, a pivotal point of the of the whole story. Yeah. Loved it.
Michelle Newman 1:05:33
I don't think it can be over emphasized how relatable the really the theme of this book is, and Kristen said earlier, these first real life crushes, these childhood crushes, they don't happen by themselves. Certainly, a lot of it does when you're alone in your bedroom with your notebook or whatever, and you know your pillow or your poster. But everybody's a part of it, because it's so all consuming for you. And like I said, too, I just love how the adults are so supportive, and they are a safe space. And I don't think anything is going to get this point across as much as this passage between Millie and her grandma. So she's worried about everything we've just been talking about that we've all been worried about. And Grandma leans forward, says, she leans forward, searching for my face. Millie, you have every right to be afraid. This is a dangerous time for you. Oh, my stars chock full of land mines that will blow your damn head off every five minutes. And if you want to duck for a while longer, that's okay. There's no law that says you have to do this right now if you don't want to kiss anyone until you're 30. So what? You'll probably have a lot of cool adventures until then, like climbing mountains and riding elephants. It's your schedule. Millie, not his. You get to decide. But what if I start to say everyone else is doing it. But I know what a grandma would say to that, if everyone jumped off a cliff, would you do it too? And it's not true that everyone else is doing it. She says, reading my mind, it feels like everyone else is doing it, but it's actually only a couple of people. Everyone else is doing a fat lot of nothing, but if you don't kiss them, I say, getting at my real worry. Will they stop liking you? Sweetheart? She says, Those are called Dick wads.
Carolyn Cochrane 1:07:31
They are people
Michelle Newman 1:07:32
you don't want to be kissing in the first place. The nice ones just keep liking you.
Carolyn Cochrane 1:07:37
Oh, yes, I mean, and that's what I'm on. That's
Michelle Newman 1:07:41
it in a nutshell, that you get that so much, but that's where you get the like, that's like, I wish I would have read this. You know, yes,
Carolyn Cochrane 1:07:54
she says, right, and it's why I aspire to be grandma. Cheryl. I want my grandkids to be able to come to me, it's like grandparents are one degree removed too. So it's not quite as it's not the same relationship, obviously, as with your parents. And so for her to have grandma Cheryl, and for grandma Cheryl to be so articulate and talking with her, and not making not talking down to her, I just that's going to be me. I'm going to be the grandma Cheryl.
Kristin Nilsen 1:08:21
She's setting the intention right
Michelle Newman 1:08:23
now, and right after that, she rolls off the bean bag on all fours. And I just had to laugh, because Kristen, I've seen Kristen get out of a bean bag that way.
Carolyn Cochrane 1:08:30
The same scene. And I loved there was just like, one sentence that I thought was so funny and so real. There's a scene where grandma Cheryl has to run, and she's running mentally, like, points it out, like, well, how often do you ever see your grandma run? And I was like, by golly, I'm gonna be a grandma. I never saw my grandparents in any way. My grandmothers run. Grandmas don't run. Well, Grandma Cheryl does, and I'm gonna run money. I love that. I love that.
Michelle Newman 1:09:04
So tell everyone, Kristen, all the things, how they can pre order, where and why. Reviews are so
Kristin Nilsen 1:09:11
important. So the Scott Fenwick diaries is available wherever you buy books, whether it's in store or online, starting July 22 and if you go in a store and you don't see it, feel free to ask for it. They actually like it. When you do that, that's and that's very helpful to me, too. You can always order any book from any bookstore. Just because you don't see it on the shelf doesn't mean that it's not available to you, and it helps booksellers become aware of me. And maybe they'll, you know, look up my reviews, and then they'll order my books. So that's very helpful. And if you would like a book signed by me, signed sent to you, you can order from the bookstore where I work, which is called Big Hill books in Minneapolis. You can use an Eventbrite link that is in my linktree and on my website. And I think it's in our PCPs linktree too, isn't
Michelle Newman 1:09:57
it? It's in all the things. Yes, it's on all the things. And if you read
Kristin Nilsen 1:10:01
the Scott Fenwick diaries, please know how important it is to authors that you share what you think. This is the only way that other people buy books. They the number one reason that people buy a book is because a friend recommended it to them. The second most important thing that makes people buy a book is reviews. When they see a review online or on social media, that's the second most important way that makes that makes people buy a book. So where can you leave a review? On online retailers, on Goodreads, but especially on the online retailers. The more reviews you have, the more the algorithm shows your book to other people. So that's really important. The number of reviews is really important. The other thing is that when people are shopping online, they look to see how many reviews a book has. If it has a lot, they're like, Oh, this must be very good. That's true. So I gotta, I gotta chalk up as many reviews as I can. Here's one more thing you can do. If you're a library user, requested at your public library, if you're not a public library user, this is your big chance, because libraries are under threat right now, and they need you. They need you to have a library card. So if you've never had a library card, go get one today. The more people they have with library cards, the more support they get, even if it's just emotional support, it makes them feel really good. But every library has a way for you to request a book they want. If you want them to buy a book, you just have to find the place on your web, on their website that says, request a book.
Carolyn Cochrane 1:11:23
Well. Kristen, thank you so much for joining us today and for the magic you have created on those pages of the Scott Fenwick diaries. We are so grateful to be beneficiaries of your as I like to say, your wizardry way with words, because that's truly what it is. It's like you're an alchemist with the way you just mix the right words at the right time and those moments that you create, it's just makes a memorable story. And we are grateful. Thanks.
Kristin Nilsen 1:11:53
Thank you. Thank you for saying all of those things. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. You always need it as an as a person who creates something, you put it out there in the world, and you're like, oh my god, are they gonna hate it? So then when they don't, it feels really good.
Michelle Newman 1:12:07
Yeah, we love it well. And we'd also like to give a big thank you to some of our supporters over on Patreon. Well, we wanna thank all of our supporters on Patreon, but every episode, we like to thank some of them by name, and today we're saying thank you to Cara or Cara. Allison, Liz Courtney, Carla, Erin, Debbie, Christine, Amy Tanya, Johanna or Joanna. I think it's Johanna, Jeannie Kimberly, Robert and Mendel, wow, wow. That's a lot. Look at us. Go and Scott and Millie, Grandma Phyllis and Tibbs and Shauna and grandma Cheryl
Kristin Nilsen 1:12:45
wrote a Perpich. Yeah. In the meantime, let's raise our glasses for a toast courtesy of the cast of Three's Company, two good times,
Carolyn Cochrane 1:12:55
two Happy Days, Two Little House on the Prairie and Walnut Grove estates.
Unknown Speaker 1:12:59
Yes, that's where Millie lives. She lives in all the grove estates.
Michelle Newman 1:13:04
Cheers, cheers. The information,
Kristin Nilsen 1:13:06
opinions and comments expressed on the pop culture Preservation Society podcast belong solely to Carolyn the crushologist and hello Newman, and are in no way representative of our employers or affiliates. And though we truly believe we are always right, there is always a first time the PCPs is written, produced and recorded in Minneapolis, Minnesota, home of the fictional wjm studios and our beloved Mary Richards Nano. Nano, keep on trucking and May the Force Be With You. You.
Transcribed by https://otter.ai